Why did you decide to get an iPod?

I got a new PC, so myself and TheNurse could get new jobs. She has an interview tomorrow, I have one on Wednesday. So that might have worked.

While we were looking for jobs, I downloaded iTunes.
Then I got into AirTunes.

Then I looked at my Sony MiniDisc player and thought *sigh* "you are really not too cool these days" and the music was limited to how many discs I took with me.

I've always had Apple kit, they make good stuff that lasts. See my still working SE for proof.

Then I checked out the iPod.
Then I got one for my birthday.
The rest,as they say, is history.

The screen behind the SE is showing the bbc new front page as at 23:00 (GMT) 13-12-2004. Not bad for a computer that was made in 1988.

The Karma appears to have better features but I am steered away from it due to its construction. The shape of it would make it uncomfortable to put in the pocket (and strange looking) and I didn't care for the button layout. I am also not liking the rumor of HD failure that seems much more common than any other HD MP3 player out there.
Perhaps one of the biggest turnoffs for me was the lack of its ability to function as an external harddrive without needing the drivers. I myself will not fill up an entire 20gigs with music. The main two reasons I bought the iPod were A) It's sleek design which looks great, is easy to use, and can fit in my pocket comfortably. B) It functions well as an external harddrive.
I go from computer to computer daily whether I'm going from each one of my computers to a school computer or going to repair a computer I always want to have my files with me.
On top of all that, iPod has a larger community and more accessories. All of these things combined made the iPod the best choice for me.

It looks sleek and sexy.

I wanted something I could put in my pocket, so thin and slightly taller was preferable to short and thick. I'm also left-handed, and having that dial on the right-hand side looked very cumbersome. And the iPod certainly has a larger choice of cases, particularly given the Karma's odd size.

It was really riovolution.com that turned me off about the Karma. There were many reports of hard drive failures, and the response was generally "yeah, that's a known problem". Those few lucky (?) souls for whom it died in the meager 90 day warranty window were inevitably faced with an hour or more on hold to talk to somebody (in India). I realize I might have just been hearing the worst, and perhaps Rio has their drive problems worked out - I just didn't see any reason to spend $250 just to find out.

I really couldn't care less about Apple and will probably never buy anything else from them, but the iPod is a good player; its well-constructed and reliable. About the only thing I really miss that the Karma has is a good equalizer - but to be honest, I don't even use the EQ settings on the iPod.

Well, for me I prefer AAC/MP4 over Ogg for compression vs. Sound Quality. Also, I wanted an MP3/AAC player with a 40GB hard drive. So the Karma wasn't an option.

If I have to buy another one in the future... I'll think about the Karma.. but I'll probably 'upgrade' from my 3G iPod to a 4G with a 40GB drive.

well i had a kick ### rio riot that weighed 500 pounds, and it died(thank god) and best buy wouldnt take it, so i went ahead and got the ipod coz the style just blew me away. I loved how it was soo small and looked soo cool.

Originally posted by Lone
Forgetting gapless playback and cheaper price...

Meh.................. :rolleyes: can't have everything.

I got mine due to hype from one of my friends then returned it for a gmini 400, doing research is better than following hype, now I have Divx video, same size as ipod, cf card reader, photo viewer, no restrictions, and all that good stuff.

I still enjoyed the ipod while i had it(kinda like a 14 day trial at circutcity YAY), I still miss the scroll wheel........

well, as you said, I could select another better function mp3 player like iRiver, Sony. I've used Apple computer more than 15 years. I was already obsessed by the enchant power of Apple. I like simple design, easy to use, intuition menu, and buttons. I thought that Sony was almost closed to get but its device is ubiquitous, and common. I needed something special. wow, Apple made something good digital music player. so I decided to buy. at least I'm not wrong with 15 years Mac using experience. so far, I am satisfied with it.

The power of Itunes

I bought an iPod just so I could join an iPod forum and share in the fun along with all the other iPod owning members by being asked, practically, every day why I didn't buy an iRiver, Karma etc etc etc because they are soooooo much better.

I was feeling left out.

:(

PS Why did you decide to join an iPod forum, just to ask that when there are plenty of other forums that are much better for you, like www.riovolution.com ?

:)

BTW I really bought one because I like it, but don't tell anybody. ;)

Originally posted by mr.karmalicious
Karma has 55mW/channel, which AFAIK is the most powerful of all DAPs. It also has a 5-Band parametric equalizer, which greatly customizes sound, which iPod can't do. Gotta go!

Sorry to say but I've tried the Karma & iRiver and I'm not going to be buying either any time soon. 55mW/channel & a "parametric equalizer"? Instead of looking at stat sheets I use the device and if there isn't a large enough audio quality difference then I shoot for the next best thing: interface and design.

And in reply to aquatika, he is a member of riovolution and it just so happens to be that his riovolution forum profile says he enjoys "bashing iPods". Seems like he is here because he is insecure about his Karma purchase.

The only reason I enjoy bashing iPod is because so many people think that it is superior to all other players and have no reason for it.

Parametric EQ- You can choose any five frequencies from 40 to 20K and boost or lower their volume by 12dB. You can also choose how wide of a range to boost the sound from.

Yeah, I'm a member of riovolution, but that doesn't make me a fanboy, just like being from ipodlounge doesn't make you a fanboy.

Also, Apple refuses to release the amp power of the iPod, but it does sound worse than the iRiver, which has 23mW/channel, if I remember correctly.

Lastly, moxxi's opinion seems to be a popular one... ;)

its the most famous and looks the best.

sick of carrying a CD player and a handful of CDs in my bag. Nice to be able to carry a few thousand songs in my pocket, and also use as an external hard drive for work.

And I found it for a price that I couldn't refuse.

^^

I agree 100% with you.

I have to say, I wasnt going to post a reply, but after reading through this forum I just have to..........
Arent we on an Ipod website?
Why in the hell would you come to an Ipod website and through up a post like that? Just to get a reaction is why.
Everyone, or mostly everyone it seems is here because they love their purchase, they adore their Ipod, I know I do.
I spend my time on this site looking for tips and tricks and checking out what other people are using the greatest musical playing device ever invented for.
Pretty much all of the people are going to say the same thing that read this.

Look at the numbers.

Thats right, look at the number of people who own an Ipod.
The market share for Ipods is incredible.
How can it not be the best? Sure, I understand the best isnt allways on top but, there have been plenty of companies trying to throw the Ipod off the top of the mountain and to my recolection, none of them, thats right none of them have been sucsessful.

Its the best, you probably got your rio as a gift. Secretly, you want one, go ahead say it, YOU want an Ipod. Just give me your address, I will mail you the address of the nearest Apple store, Target, or any other retailer that sells Ipods. :)

Thank you, and I will get off the soap box.

I do not want an iPod, and never will. Sure, I would take one if I could get one for free, so I could sell it for money.

You are right- just because something sells the most does not mean in any way that it's the best. Look at PS2...

pTang- Where did you get the specs on the amp? Apple refuses to release them. Please provide a link. Also, if I wanted a 40gig+ player, I would go for an iRiver.

Cheaper than iPod Photo (by ALOT)

Plays video (that's REALLY hard to do when you have a color screen)

FM Radio and Recording (no idea why no other players have this...)

Included fully functional backlit remote with LCD screen.

Furthermore, the JetAudio M3 is a great player.

You are right on one account- I did post to get a reply. What the hell else would anyone post for?

I did not get my Karma as a gift. I was looking for a good DAP player and (like a smart consumer) researched my options. It was down to iPod, iRiver, and Karma. I found out about the great site Riovolution and decided on a Karma. I worked for every penny of the money it took to buy my Karma.

The only reason that Apple's iPod is selling so well is because Apple has a great marketing team, while I don't even think that Rio has one. If they could just put the specs of the iPod and Karma side-by-side, I'm sure that they could sell much better.

Braincuttermind, your iPod battery lasts long enough to do all of that stuff? 0_o;

Rival Schools, it's not that people don't want/need these features, it's that they have no idea what they are because they are uneducated. If people could get off of their lazy asses and spend a couple minutes researching, I'm pretty confident that they wouldn't get an iPod. The ridiculous thing is that so many employees at electronics stores think that all DAP's are called iPods. I called CC to ask if they had a Rio Karma 20 in stock, and they asked if it was a video game. I asked him, "And you work at an electronics store? You should get your ### fired. Bye, thanks for wasting my time." Education is the problem.

"greatest musical playing device ever invented"

How the hell is this true? I see no points anywhere in this thread that prove that. It may be the best looking, but that is completely subjective. If I wanted something to look at, I wouldn't spend $300-$400 on a dedicated music player.

Concerning the hardware problems of the Karma, the iPod is broken right out of the box since it cannot play albums correctly. Thank you for your time.

P.S.- I'm very suprised that I havn't been banned yet, since that seems to be what rour mods do to anyone who speaks negatively about the little white soapbox.

I'll be the first to admit that yes, the Karma does sound like a better MP3 player on paper, and its technical specs are impressive. The reason the iPod is more popular isn't entirely because its a better player. It's popular because it's easy to use (ie: it has just the essentials, no equalizer..no fm radio.) and the average consumer could care less about those features, less add-ons = easier to use. Also, there's a lot of advertizing done for it.

There are a lot of audiophiles and people that demand a product like the Karma, or an iRiver, but they make up let's say 25% of the ppl in the market for an MP3 player..so even if all those people don't buy an iPod, the other 75% will because of its popularity and ease of use. I'll agree when you say the Karma is "technically" a better player, but ease of use, quality and popularity all go to the iPod.

P.S. - As long as you give a good, respectful argument, you won't get banned lol

Eric

i think he means they don't play in order...which doesnt bother me...

Eric

When will most need a stronger amp? When will most need ethernet? When will most need more than 12 hours of battery life? When will most need more than the standard equalizer settings? When will most need FLAC, OGG, or WMA? When will most need an FM tuner?

Even if there was a need for more than 12 hours of battery life, Battery Technology has an external rechargable battery which extends the life 40 hours. I have a set of E3c earphones and I need to change the equalizer settings to compensate for the bass. There are plenty of equalizer settings, and sometimes I wonder why it isn't possible to sync equalizer settings with iTunes, but that doesn't change the fact that I still don't need to. Even if FLAC were available, the battery life would be signifigantly shortened and the hard drive would spin up every 5 minutes. Most don't even know what OGG is, and WMA support seems like it's mostly needed for people switching to the iPod. Most use the included headphones so they wouldn't hear the difference between lossless, let alone the small differences between each player. I can't stand AM/FM radio so I am a little biased on this one (I switched to XM a few years ago). I think the need for an FM radio is limited, but probably one of the only valid arguments against the iPod. Even though I doubt most are loading 20GB of music on their iPod to listen to the radio, talk and news are important for some. I don't know if the lack of an FM attachment shows that it's just not wanted by enough people to spend time developing it, or if they just aren't paying attention to the market.

Again, I just think you're overestimating the needs of the consumers. How many people have progressive scan DVD players hooked into 5-10 year old TVs? Sure, a Falcon computer will run faster, be more upgradable, have more storage space, but how many really need any more than a $500 PC when all they do is check their email? What is great about the iPod is the aftermarket. The iPod is a simple device and smaller than the others, but for those that need a mic, extended battery, laser pointer attachments, etc, they are available. This is an iPod community site, I have read a few ridiculous statements here, but that just isn't representative of all owners. Not all are uneducated or think that owning an iPod makes them cool.

We're talking about grandmothers, kids, and everyone in between. More mostly translates into more complicated. Do you really think most people are going to go out an resarch file encoding, DRM, and etc? People don't buy DVD audio and SACD players when all they need is a simple DVD player...

BTW, I just got a chance to try out the Zen Micro and I was pretty impressed. It has the easiest hardware and software UI, nice form factor and the replaceable battery is nice. My only complaint is that the touch pad should relate to the menu. Top of touch pad scrolls to top of menu, bottom of touch pad to bottom of menu, and etc. That way you can move to a specific area rather than scrolling.

Personally, I really don't care about gapless, but I can understand if you do. Still, you can pack as many features as you want into the iriver, Creative, and Rio, but that's not why people are buying the iPod.

First, the iPod does play albums in order; if you didn't know whether it did (and obviously you didn't), you shouldn't have stated it as a 'fact'. And I already told you how many hours the iPod runs (not much less than the Karma), so don't act so amazed that it lasts long enough for the braincutter.

People don't get banned just for anti-iPod, they get banned for repeating dogma long after its been proven wrong. Unfortunately, both behaviors tend to coincide, as you have been showing.

Originally posted by mr.karmalicious
I wasn't even aware that the CD's sometimes don't go in oreder... thanks for the info :p



I never said they didn't go in order, like I said I've never even heard of that happening on an iPod, you are mistaken.

Rio Music Manager is a great music organization tool. People who have used both rate it just below iTunes. I love the RioStick and jogwheel, they are very easy to use. I also love how the RioStick enables the amzing "stop" feature! :rolleyes:

The Karma has no sharp edges or protrusions either. The iPod's design is excellent, I will admit that. But I prefer function over looks and simplicity, so I therefore like Karma. The Touch/Click Wheel hurts my thumb after a while though, and I can't have that.

Matrixsjd, I never said that you said that the iPod couldn't play albums in order. I'm afraid you are mistaken.

I gotta go, won't be back 'till tomorrow, bye guys.

You fail to realize why the iPod is successful because you don't understand it.

While you say that it is rated just below iTunes, you cannot purchase music from within the same program that syncs with the Karma. The iPod is not successful because of any single feature. It's how hardware and software integrates together. People are tired of loading drivers, software, organizing files, dodging viruses and spyware, and other various bugs. The iPod only requires you to load iTunes. You would also have to load some sort of software from Napster or Real just to buy the music in addition to the Rio Music Manager a manager you admitted isn't quite as good as iTunes. Again, the iPod aftermarket has spawned various programs for loading music onto the iPod.

The Karma is over an 1" thick, that's nearly doube the depth of an iPod. The Karma is just a bigger player.

"I prefer function over looks and simplicity, so I therefore like Karma." And again I will ask you why someone needs to buy a Falcon computer to check email? The iPod and iTunes does everything that 80-90% need it to do, and does it will.

Originally posted by mr.karmalicious
Yeah, the Micro is a nice little player, but (as suspected) I prefer the Carbon.I think the Carbon looks very cool, but that issue with it having problems when a headphone jack is metal-tipped was a dealbreaker for me (then I realized I had way too much music for 5GB anyway). Rio seems to have serious quality-control problems.

Your last sentence makes a point- why are people buying iPods?
From Riovolution:
Dec 1 "Yet another Karma HD issue"
Dec 2: "DNNA Phone Support Sucks"
Dec 7: " I think my karma just died..."
Dec 9: "Another Dead Karma"

And thats just from the first page... I ignored the various corruption problems, because a lot of that's user-caused. Now, the iPod Problems forum DOES have one dead unit reported on its first page, but its two generations old - before the Karma even existed. And for every Karma, there are...what...10 or 20 iPods?

Funny how they keep saying another dead Karma, isn't it?

Damn this double posting madness! Argh. :(

"3G iPod / Weird Battery Problems

iPod won't stop heating up

iPodPhoto Problems

Go to sleep, little pod - NO DON'T

God!!! my ipod is dead, H-E-L-P !!!

Stuck on apple logo and restoring does not help

its official i hat apple and my ipod...

Help! Dead iPod

updated iPod, lost all music

IPOD Freezing an wont play some songs? HELP ME PLEASE

ipod going haywire, please advise!

my ipod has a mind of it's own. Help me!

my ipod has crapped out :(

My standing on..."

Originally posted by mr.karmalicious
My standing on..." Oh, that's a pretty scary topic. How many pages did you have to search through to find those? Should I post every Karma problem reported? I ignored the various non-fatal problems on both DAPs, because many of those are just OS-related problems, and/or people who refuse to read the manual.

I see you found the two dead iPods reported. But, since there are probably 10-20 as many iPods as Karmas, you'll need to find 30-60 dead iPods for every dead Karma to make it even close to the same. Then we can talk about how much longer iPods have been around, and the fact there aren't any two-year old Karmas (I shudder to think how many dead Karmas will be reported when they get that old).

Originally posted by Superweirdash
Jc, does the Rio have any of these features I've come to like?I also really like the ability to store contacts & calendar items from Windows. Its like having an address book with me all the time. I didn't really think that would be any big deal when I got it, but now I found myself grabbing the iPod when I need a phone number.

The text viewer is also helpful; I use it to store notes, hotel directions & reservation numbers when I'm on trips - just less junk to carry around. Its like having a PalmPilot at no extra cost.

Other files can be carried around as disk files, since the iPod functions as a removable disk.

Does the Karma have these features? I didn't see anything about them in the tech specs.

Originally posted by mr.karmalicious
That's one thing that you've got to live with if you by a Rio- they only pay attention to music related features, and they do a damn good job of it. I do wish it had some of the iPod's features, but iPod doesn't have many of the music features that I consider necessary- such as OGG and FLAC support, DRM support, and a 5-Band Parametric EQ.The iPod also has normalization built-in ("sound check), which levels the volume across various MP3s - does Rio have that? If not, isn't that a music related feature?

I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove here. You certainly can't prove that the Karma's reliable. You certainly can't prove that whoever owns Rio this month is providing good support (its pretty well-known that they're not), or that whoever owns them next year will provide any. The Karma is a good device for the audio geek who is more concerned about OGG support than technical support. The Karma has features that the iPod doesn't (none of which I miss), and the iPod has features that the Karma doesn't (apparently none of which you care about). So we all made the right choice.

WMA is ####ty mr.karmalicious, the reason apple doesn't include it in it's support file formats is because it's a microsoft format, and why should they support it anyway? WMA has and always will suck

Just thought I would point out the irony of your statement. You're proposing everyone go out and buy a Karma because the sound quality is slightly better, then loading it up with 128 kbps WMA files.

You've referred to AAC as proprietary twice now. FairPlay DRM is, AAC is not.

I have E3c earphones and have no issues with the AMP in the iPod. Don't know what you're talking about there.

then don't go on and on about "why people buy iPods?" you just answered why in that last sentence, people buy what they like and if the iPod appeals to them then that's what they purchase it's as simple as that. Giving something all these bells and whistles doesn't mean a majority of the people will want it in the end.

well why not? like has been stated many times before, lots of people like simplicity and ease of use, and maybe something that looks cool. The iPod fits all these so why shouldn't people purchase it, I mean you chose the karma and that was ur choice we're not hounding you as to why you purchased it.

Originally posted by mr.karmalicious
They should be and are happy with the iPod, what I'm trying to figure out is WHY. There have been around 60 posts telling you why, and you still can't figure it out? Are you a troll or an idiot?

To list what comes to mind:
- Smaller size, much easier fit in pocket
- Better reliability
- Better support
- Automatic normalization
- Automatic on & hold when headphone is detached or removed
- Usability that most reviewers consider the best (and is MUCH better for left-handers)
- iTunes integration
- Contacts, Calendar, & text viewer
- Style
- Sound quality that is perfectly fine for nearly everyone

10 reasons should be enough.:rolleyes:

For this we suffer through those awful, awful 1/10th of a second blips on the few songs that run together. Boo-hoo. I have mine in shuffle almost all the time anyway.

I don't feel like arguing anymore- I can't get you guys to see it from my point-of-view :(

When I got my first one it was the only alternative I knew, and liked it so got a second when the first got stolen. It all started with consumer ignorance and being a victim of good advertising, but ended up okay.

Originally posted by Superweirdash
The fact remains that when I'm USING my iPod, what matters are the little things like that. When I'm on the bus, I most certainly cannot tell that I need to adjust the EQ, or need a better amp. I can't even tell those things most of the time, let alone in the environments I listen to music in. I've never even WANTED to OGG, FLAC, DRM or the EQ. I don't have any use for them. Until I find myself needing them, I'll be satisfied with MP3 and AAC.


Again, how many users of the iPod, Karma or any other PORTABLE mp3 player are going to be able to tell that? I am almost positive the masses do not have earphones good enough to tell the difference. The environment that most people listen to these things in isn't exactly a world-class sound hall. The differences are lost in muddle of cars, wind and talking.

So what does matter to me? The little things. And the GUI, which I happen to like better than the Karma's. And the mass of accessories available. If I have to take a hit on the features I won't use, so be it.

BTW, I'm a little unclear on the purpose of this thread. To make us sell our ipods and buy Karmas? Or to convince would-be buyers to choose the Karma instead? Or just to bicker endlessly. I have a hard time beleiving you really want to know why, seeing as you've already taken sides and rebut every answer. The only end I can see is everyone admitting they were wrong, until then you will continue to trump the same features time and time again.

Most people who buy iPods are just normal DAP users who don't care too much about a SLIGHT difference in sound quality.

That's why I'm getting an iPod...sure there are 'better sounding' players, but hey, what other player has iTunes OR the interface of an Apple?

The answer my friends...is NONE!

LONG LIVE THE IPOD!

The Karma interface is slightly harder to use, but much more intuitive. And it is not a slight difference at all. Karma may not have iTunes, but it does have every single site that sells music besides iTunes. iPod can only play songs bought from iTunes or a store that sells mp3 (which is not easy to find these days, I might add).

And I think it would be nice for everyone to admit that they were wrong about something.

I admit it.

Sorry, I can't help myself :p :(

Probably one of the very few in this thread to have been an owner of both players, I will offer my standpoint.

I have been a Rio user since the PMP-300(which I still think holds the world record for best selling mp3 player). They really were the only choice around for a while. I had the PMP-300, Rio 600, and Rio S10 players. Flash, no more than 64 MB. I felt that they were easy to use, good battery life, good sound, good for a player for a person like me who (was) 14 years old and didn't have much music on his computer.

But alas, my Rio S10 was stolen from me. My music files were nearing 2 GB, and my PMP-300 and Rio 600, outdated, didn't feel like they were going to cut it(I still use these players to this date as flash players for athletic activity) for my main player. Enter the hard drive world.

The 3G iPods had just come out. The Karma had been out for some time. To me, these were my 2 choices. I didn't do much research on the players. It was one or the other. Finally I decided to try the iPod 3G 10 GB. I owned it for 2 weeks and it didn't deliver the hype and satisfaction I expected for a top-selling brand name icon product. I didn't like the battery life I was getting at all. The sound quality for me didn't have a good punch in the bass department, which was also a turn off. The touch buttons were awkward since I got no feedback from them. The navigation wasn't as AWESOME or INTUITIVE as everyone clamed. iTunes was a good program, but it didn't have much MusicMatch couldn't do. I realized that this player wasn't for me. I really never liked having something everyone else had anyway. Seeking a player with more punch, I went back to my DAP roots and got the Karma.

I loved my Karma for the 2 months I had it. The parametric EQ was actually very useful for me, I liked the playlists on board, 20Gb storage was more than enough, dock was cool. But my most heralded thing about the Karma to me was the gapless playback. Not a big deal to me with my other players, now was huge. Once you go gapless, you can never go back. Unfortunatley, my headphones caught onto the stair railing and the Karma in my pocket went flying down to the floor below. It took a pretty big bounce and then hit the edge of a glass table. I ran to my Karma and the screen was messed up, the hard drive was clicking and it was displaying "UPGRADER" on the screen. Without any kind of trouble shoot, I just returned it to Best Buy.

Instead of getting another Karma, I bought a Nitrus, and was satisfied, but not extremely. I thought it would be the same experience as the Karma only cheaper and less storage. It had an EQ and all, but the storage was rather lacking, and it wasn't the same as the Karma, which was hard to live up to. The absence of gapless wasn't cool. The Nitrus has its own niche and after having a Karma it was kind of hard to live with the Nitrus. I accidentally dropped it in the pool when I left it dangling from the headphones. So I got another Nitrus. The longer I had it, the more and more I realized I didn't NEED a DAP at the moment and could just live off of my Rio 600 until a better player came along. So one day it showed UPGRADER and the hard drive was clicking. I never called tech support, searched the net, or anything. I just returned it for a full refund.

I used my Rio 600 until the arrival of the Carbon. I was excited. This seemed like the perfect player for me. 5GB was in my range of the 3 GB I have, voice recorder seemed cool, good looks, pocketability, strong amp, EQ, battery life, and the easy navigation of the Karma. I am in love with it except one thing: gapless. What a big deal it is to me. Every day I consider trading it in for a Karma. However I don't think I will do that. Not because I think the Karma is unreliable, its because I am anticipating a new HD player from Rio. The moment it comes, bye bye Carbon. But yes, gapless playback is that important to me. What was not at first, is now. Once you go gapless you can never go back.

I have come up to my own theory as to why there are a near equal number of bad Karma threads than bad iPod threads, even though there are more iPods. Each hard drive player experiences "sticktion", which is friction that causes the hard drive to stick to something in the player. Its inevitable, it can and probably will happen to each spinning hard drive sometime. The reason less iPod users complain is because they think it doesn't get better than the iPod. They have it stuck in their heads that the iPod is the superior product and if its not working, then there is no other choice then to just return it to get another iPod. The iPod owner has it in their head that the other players are "lower" status than the iPod, so they can't be possibly as good or better. On the other hand, the Karma owner with a problem knows that there is that best selling, popular iPod player to consider that, being told from the media, advertising, and websites like CNet is the best. So the Karma owner will complain, ask for help, and all that stuff so they can keep their player as good or better than that of what they think the iPod is so they don't have to return it to get an iPod. After too much, they say #### it, I'm getting an iPod. Seldom do you hear an iPod user say "#### it, I'm getting a Karma", since to the iPod user they think that getting a Karma would be getting a worse product. It may be hard to understand, so here is an example:

A person buys a Lexus. It is running bad. They return it to get another Lexus, instead of going (in their opinion) lower, to say, a Toyota Camry. However, the Camry user has theirs running bad, and knows that they could get a (in their opinion) nicer car by the brand of Lexus. So they will do everything they can to keep their Camry as good as possible to where they don't have to just return it and get a Lexus.

Originally posted by threeball The reason less iPod users complain is because they think it doesn't get better than the iPod. They have it stuck in their heads that the iPod is the superior product and if its not working, then there is no other choice then to just return it to get another iPod.Well, if it makes you feel good, that's nice. Anything that is anti-iPodder will make Karmalicious feel good. But since it doesn't make any sense, its not going to convince anyone who doesn't already feel that way. I guarantee you, anyone who has a Lexus that isn't running right in the first two years is going to be extremely angry about it - like the iPod (and apparently unlike the Karma), that is not the expectation. Isn't that why so many threads say "another dead Karma"?

Of course, but iPod owners have the option of returning it and getting another iPod during the first year. So the post would be "I had to live without my iPod for a week" instead of "my Karma died after 6 months, now I have to go buy another". I can see how that would seem less tragic, since it is less tragic.

That year warranty is only 4 months shorter than the entire history of the Karma! The Karma has only been out for 16 months (and selling for about 15)! Do you really think hard drives die normally during that timeframe?

Of course, that may just be your misunderstanding of the release dates. The Karma was released August 2003 (http://www.everythingusb.com/hardware/index/Digital_Networks_Rio_Karma_20.htm), and the 3G was released April 2003 (http://www.ipodlounge.com/articles_more.php?id=4280_0_8_0_C). So your statement that you'd bought a 3G when it first came out and the "Karma had been out for some time" is just wrong.

i have no idea wat a karma is. sori i really dont. but seeing the topic is 'y did u decide 2 get an ipod?', i will answer that. im just a normal skoolgirl and i dont really look 4 all those things u guys look 4. i just luved how kool it looks and how different it is frm the other ones. also i needed one that had enuf space 2 hold all my songs and wasnt really big n bulky. i pleaded my parents 4 half a yr b4 they promised 2 get me it. OBVIOUSLY they thought it was good enuf 2 spend all that money on! they got me the 40gb one! i suppose that i mite have got i coz of this 'status' thing. also wats with all this baggin of the grey click wheel? i have no probs with it. wat i dont like is the mirrorry surface on the bak that gets all these fingerprints on it. other than that i luv my ipod!

Why?
Because I lusted after it for 3 years,
many times looking for a more beautiful alternative,
but couldn't.
I lusted after its smooth, white, chrome yada yada looks...
But I couldn't afford it,
and tried dissuading myself to forget about it...
Until I met the man of my life who offered to get me one as a Christmas gift this year.
:)

Originally posted by yyoo

I go iPod because I love it. At age 38, it's definitely not a status thing, particularly as I hide my iPod (in bag, no white earphones) when I'm using it in public. Though you may not have fallen in love with iTunes or the iPod UI, the vast majority of its users have. Together, iTunes and the iPod have enriched their musical listening experiences and, in many cases, including mine, brought music back into their lives in a profound and extremely rewarding way.

Are there better products out there? Maybe, if you want to talk about this technical feature or that. But it's the iPod+iTunes "experience," particularly as it pertains to the enjoyment of music, and lots of it, that keeps users loyal and generates invaluable word of mouth once they buy in to the 'hype.' And until another product can match that synergy, the iPod's competitors will simply be fighting over leftover scraps of the market. Alas for the competition, it's not going to happen anytime soon because I don't think any of them has gotten it yet. They think it's about this feature or that, or this color or that, when it's really about what Apple has always been good at, a totality of user experience.

BTW, soundwise I love the iPod because it's so neutral. And, yes, I use an amp. Most users, though, are not going to miss an amp. Moreover, if sound is very important to a user, he should buy an amp and better headphones regardless of which DAP he owns.

That's interesting that you posted this because my iPod also brought music back into my life in a way that I didn't expect. I also went out and bought a new ear bud immediately (Sony ex71) and within two weeks, bought a Grado SR60. I'm currently thinking about picking up either the Grado amp or the SR71 amp (used from someone on head-fi).

Originally posted by yyoo
Interesting how the very people who say that iPod owners are status-conscious and have bought into marketing hype are also the most likely to buy another product largely because of reasons of status...because having a non-iPod makes them 'different' and, so, somehow implicitly 'better.' I had this thought tonight before I read your post. It's funny I came upon an example of it so soon.

I go iPod because I love it. At age 38, it's definitely not a status thing, particularly as I hide my iPod (in bag, no white earphones) when I'm using it in public. Though you may not have fallen in love with iTunes or the iPod UI, the vast majority of its users have. Together, iTunes and the iPod have enriched their musical listening experiences and, in many cases, including mine, brought music back into their lives in a profound and extremely rewarding way.

Are there better products out there? Maybe, if you want to talk about this technical feature or that. But it's the iPod+iTunes "experience," particularly as it pertains to the enjoyment of music, and lots of it, that keeps users loyal and generates invaluable word of mouth once they buy in to the 'hype.' And until another product can match that synergy, the iPod's competitors will simply be fighting over leftover scraps of the market. Alas for the competition, it's not going to happen anytime soon because I don't think any of them has gotten it yet. They think it's about this feature or that, or this color or that, when it's really about what Apple has always been good at, a totality of user experience.

BTW, soundwise I love the iPod because it's so neutral. And, yes, I use an amp. Most users, though, are not going to miss an amp. Moreover, if sound is very important to a user, he should buy an amp and better headphones regardless of which DAP he owns.

Absolutely true. I 'just' got out a couple month 'relationship' with my other MP3 player (a Nomad Zen Jukebox NX) which I REALLY loved...but it never quite delivered. The player was bulky, the scrolling was hard, the software was TERRIBLE! Imagine entering names for every song! I couldn't get the program to get songs off the net for me and I have a couple gigs worth of space.

Then iTunes came into my life (through the Pepsi promo of free iTunes songs under certain caps of Mt. Dew, Pepsi, etc.), and I cannot thank Pepsi enough! I'm now hooked and waiting for my first 'Pod.

Experience is everything.

Originally posted by threeball
have had 7 Rio Players and 0 random problems

Judging by your sig, you have or have had something like ten MP3 players. Maybe you haven't experienced any problems because you haven't had a chance to use any one of your Rios long enough to run into them?