What is Apples big secret?
We haven't had any crazy rumors around here for a while so I thought I'd throw this out there for discussion. Right now, we are witnessing one of the longest blackouts of new Mac information since Steve Jobs retook the helm at Apple.
The last Mac updates were on November 8, 2006 when the MacBook was updated. We're coming up on 5 months since Apple updated any of their Macs at all and we've had no news on Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, not even at MWSF. The only information we've been given is that Apple expects to ship Mac OS X 10.5 in the spring (from now until June) and that we haven't seen all of the special features yet. What special features could Mac OS X 10.5 have that Apple won't tell us what they are? We also know that some of the iPhone's features are being kept a secret, are these secrets related?
Trying to predict what Apple is going to do is like trying to forecast the weather. Most of the time, you can see what's coming. But once in a while, conditions are perfect for something unexpected. It would appear that there is going to be a major convergence here.
I think that Apple has something big up their sleeves and that it's related to why we haven't seen any new Mac hardware since November. June is shaping up to be a huge month for Apple. We are expecting to see the launch of Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, the launch of the iPhone, and between now and June, we are due to see updates to the Mac Mini, iMac, MacBook, MacBook Pro, and Mac Pro lines. We are also due to see updates to Apple's monitors and the iPods (with the exception of the iPod shuffle).
What could be the special features that Apple is keeping us in the dark about, and how will it effect new hardware? Some immediate ideas that come to mind include storing the operating system on a flash drive for faster boot times, touchscreens on the laptops and Apple monitors, or new optical drives (Blu-Ray/HD-DVD). Of course, it could be something spectacular that no one else has thought of yet, and that's why they want to keep it a secret. Thoughts?
[2135 byte] By [
Fran441] at [2007-11-16 2:44:43]
# 1 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Implementation of touch screen displays - this feature itself worth a wait for few months ...
# 2 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I have a feeling that Apple is planning to blow our minds.
We could easily see touchscreen displays, Blu-Ray drives, flash system drives and more. I have a feeling that after Apple makes their big announcement, a quad core Mac Pro with a Superdrive running Tiger is going to look like a child's plaything.
Sigh.
# 3 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Dear Fran, CosmoNut, & Friends
I agree with your assertion that Apple has a big secret.
I'm guessing that it has something to do with technology that ties into the digital lifestyle theme, to include Apple TV, iPhone, and perhaps some unannounced products.
At Macworld there was only a nano-mention of Mac stuff.
I think this is probably a pretty good time to be in the market for a new Mac, but I certainly don't know that for sure. If we see new Mac Pros whose only new feature is dual quad-core 2.66GHz processors, I'll be disappointed.
Sincerely,
Jaddie
Jaddie at 2007-11-17 9:47:50 >
# 4 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I have a feeling that Apple is planning to blow our minds.
To me, the most mind-blowing addition of all would be the integrated sensing display (http://www.macobserver.com/columns/devilsadvocate/2006/20060125lookingglass.shtml), which effectively would integrate iSight camera technology into the displays themselves, allowing for true eye-contact Jetsons-and-Spaceballs-style video conferencing. Anything short, in my opinion, leaves the iSight one generation short of the future.
The patent was filed nearly 3 years ago. I'm ready.
# 5 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Implementation of touch screen displays - this feature itself worth a wait for few months ...
I agree with this. I'm not happy that the software and hardware updates are taking so long but if they come out with something really revolutionary (not the iphone) and hopefully affordable, it will certainly be worth the wait.
Marvin at 2007-11-17 9:49:57 >
# 6 Re: What is Apples big secret?
When SJ spoke it was a leopard 10.5 "secret" i would think it's emulation for windows, or a office suite, what else could be needed as secret to keep from MS overloading their copy machines? it could be a different UI??
NOFEER at 2007-11-17 9:50:56 >
# 7 Re: What is Apples big secret?
What is Apple's big secret?
The drop of the 40y old 'Desktop'-Metaphor..:
trash cans, folders, ... and, hey, what is a 'file' anyhow? I'm doing projects, versions...
iTunes, Frontrow, TimeMachine... VERY different GUI...
oops, ok, this is Hardware forum .. ;)
# 8 Re: What is Apples big secret?
:?:
Tomorrow's Tuesday, and APPL stock is climbing like a fighter jet.
:D
snoopy at 2007-11-17 9:52:53 >
# 9 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I think they are simply riding the coattails of their current high stock price... I'm not expecting wine from water, folks. If they would just keep their current schedules and kick out something new in the iMac category, I'd buy, buy, buy. :D
# 10 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Apple will release a refreshed iMac a scaled down Woodcrest finally bringing quad core to their most popular desktop offering.
The sizes will be 20, 24, and 30" widescreen LCD respectively. However, the screen will not be "flat' rather they will curl inward from the edges to maximize depth of field so that even a 30" LCD feels like a 54" Plasma HDTV.
All machines will ship with 2 gigs of DDR3 RAM with two open slots offering up to 8 megs of usable RAM in the iMac platform.
Keyboard and mice will be abandoned so that Apple can finally release iOcto, a superintelligent albino octopus genetically engineered to breathe oxygen while sitting atop your head and translating your thoughts into specific octopus gestures that will be read and intepreted by the embedded iSight camera that now includes "x-ray specs mode" so that you can see yourself naked without having to actually take off clothes.
Apple will refresh their Power Mac line by removing all the processors and replacing them with a Mariachi band consisting of idiot savants who are specialists at mathematics.
The Mac Mini will be made larger to incorporate a more robust motherboard, heat sink, and scaled up Merom processor. The mini will also be outfitted with wheels, eye stalks, and pinchers much like a crab, so that it can be ordered to clean up the room where it performs its duties. Though some will complain that it still uses integrated graphics.
The refreshed Macbook will sport no screen at all but two full sized keyboards.
The refereshed Macbook pro will sport three screens, one in the traditional place, one on the back of the lid, and one where the keyboard used to be.
Apple will also release the iHat, a baseball cap decorated with Intel GMA950 graphic accelerator chips. The iHat includes an MP3 player, XM/Serius Satellite receiver, 52" Projection DLP TV, an entire DVD collection of Pixar films on a keychain mounted drive that hangs from the bill, and a 2.5 G cell phone. The iHat will only be sold through Cingular Wireless stores.
Steve Jobs will also announce that they have developed a solar powered car made entirely of American Cheese.
# 11 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I think we see a newly revamped Finder.
The UI will still look relatively the same but what it will do is where the excitement comes from. Windows will be animated (Core Animation) in a way that we simply do not see coming. Think about thinks like choosing a particular application and not having that app just pop up but rather slide into place as the other open windows gracefully aquiesce.
This would not require explicit 3rd party developer support IMO. Why do I believe this? Because Leopard finally has the tools to make this feasible.
1. Excellent scaling.
2. Resolution Independence
3. Mulithreaded OpenGL 2.1 where the UI always has a thread going.
This allows Apple to really glitz up the UI without hammering Quartz and slowing your computer down. Expect to see stuff sliding around with grace like they do on the Dock. Expect to see the UI spin on the Z axis for new looks.
Is there any wonder anymore why iLife 07 and iWork aren't here yet? They will be Apple's first showcase of what Leopard offers for new UI functionality and they will be bundled with Leopard for a good price.
# 12 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I think we see a newly revamped Finder...
Windows will be animated (Core Animation) in a way that we simply do not see coming. Think about thinks like choosing a particular application and not having that app just pop up but rather slide into place as the other open windows gracefully aquiesce.
I think they will integrate the Mac and PC guys from the commercial to walk your aps off the dock and open them for you. But there will be terminal commands so that you can make them fight to the death with knitting needles and bottle openers.
# 13 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Every time I expect something big from Apple I pinch myself to stop dreaming. That isn't to say that I'm not impressed with what they put out, but seldome does it live up to the rumors or even Apple's hype. Leopard is going to be their big anouncement this year. After that it will be Quad core Mac Pro's. Maybe a redesigned iMac and or Mac Book Pro. Everything else big this year has probably been anounced and only awaits full implimentation such as the iPhone and HD content for iTMS.
JCG at 2007-11-17 9:57:57 >
# 14 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Apple will release a refreshed iMac a scaled down Woodcrest finally bringing quad core to their most popular desktop offering.
The sizes will be 20, 24, and 30" widescreen LCD respectively. However, the screen will not be "flat' rather they will curl inward from the edges to maximize depth of field so that even a 30" LCD feels like a 54" Plasma HDTV.
All machines will ship with 2 gigs of DDR3 RAM with two open slots offering up to 8 megs of usable RAM in the iMac platform.
Keyboard and mice will be abandoned so that Apple can finally release iOcto, a superintelligent albino octopus genetically engineered to breathe oxygen while sitting atop your head and translating your thoughts into specific octopus gestures that will be read and intepreted by the embedded iSight camera that now includes "x-ray specs mode" so that you can see yourself naked without having to actually take off clothes.
Apple will refresh their Power Mac line by removing all the processors and replacing them with a Mariachi band consisting of idiot savants who are specialists at mathematics.
The Mac Mini will be made larger to incorporate a more robust motherboard, heat sink, and scaled up Merom processor. The mini will also be outfitted with wheels, eye stalks, and pinchers much like a crab, so that it can be ordered to clean up the room where it performs its duties. Though some will complain that it still uses integrated graphics.
The refreshed Macbook will sport no screen at all but two full sized keyboards.
The refereshed Macbook pro will sport three screens, one in the traditional place, one on the back of the lid, and one where the keyboard used to be.
Apple will also release the iHat, a baseball cap decorated with Intel GMA950 graphic accelerator chips. The iHat includes an MP3 player, XM/Serius Satellite receiver, 52" Projection DLP TV, an entire DVD collection of Pixar films on a keychain mounted drive that hangs from the bill, and a 2.5 G cell phone. The iHat will only be sold through Cingular Wireless stores.
Steve Jobs will also announce that they have developed a solar powered car made entirely of American Cheese.
Was that really worth your time?
wilco at 2007-11-17 9:59:02 >
# 15 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Apple will release a refreshed iMac a scaled down Woodcrest finally bringing quad core to their most popular desktop offering.
The sizes will be 20, 24, and 30" widescreen LCD respectively. However, the screen will not be "flat' rather they will curl inward from the edges to maximize depth of field so that even a 30" LCD feels like a 54" Plasma HDTV.
All machines will ship with 2 gigs of DDR3 RAM with two open slots offering up to 8 megs of usable RAM in the iMac platform.
Keyboard and mice will be abandoned so that Apple can finally release iOcto, a superintelligent albino octopus genetically engineered to breathe oxygen while sitting atop your head and translating your thoughts into specific octopus gestures that will be read and intepreted by the embedded iSight camera that now includes "x-ray specs mode" so that you can see yourself naked without having to actually take off clothes.
Apple will refresh their Power Mac line by removing all the processors and replacing them with a Mariachi band consisting of idiot savants who are specialists at mathematics.
The Mac Mini will be made larger to incorporate a more robust motherboard, heat sink, and scaled up Merom processor. The mini will also be outfitted with wheels, eye stalks, and pinchers much like a crab, so that it can be ordered to clean up the room where it performs its duties. Though some will complain that it still uses integrated graphics.
The refreshed Macbook will sport no screen at all but two full sized keyboards.
The refereshed Macbook pro will sport three screens, one in the traditional place, one on the back of the lid, and one where the keyboard used to be.
Apple will also release the iHat, a baseball cap decorated with Intel GMA950 graphic accelerator chips. The iHat includes an MP3 player, XM/Serius Satellite receiver, 52" Projection DLP TV, an entire DVD collection of Pixar films on a keychain mounted drive that hangs from the bill, and a 2.5 G cell phone. The iHat will only be sold through Cingular Wireless stores.
Steve Jobs will also announce that they have developed a solar powered car made entirely of American Cheese.
It's so obvious. How did we all miss this?:err: ...:D
# 16 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I see Apple as an incremental company, designs slowly evolve into the next thing.
No secret(s).
That's the secret.
sandau at 2007-11-17 10:01:00 >
# 17 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Apple will release a refreshed iMac a scaled down Woodcrest finally bringing quad core to their most popular desktop offering.
The sizes will be 20, 24, and 30" widescreen LCD respectively. However, the screen will not be "flat' rather they will curl inward from the edges to maximize depth of field so that even a 30" LCD feels like a 54" Plasma HDTV.
All machines will ship with 2 gigs of DDR3 RAM with two open slots offering up to 8 megs of usable RAM in the iMac platform.
Keyboard and mice will be abandoned so that Apple can finally release iOcto, a superintelligent albino octopus...
...Steve Jobs will also announce that they have developed a solar powered car made entirely of American Cheese.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
# 18 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I see Apple as an incremental company, designs slowly evolve into the next thing.
No secret(s).
That's the secret.
Don't you think iPhone contradicts this view? It's not an iPod, it's not a laptop, it's nothing like what they've done before. In fact, iPod contradicts this view as well - when it was released, it didn't resemble anything else in Apple's product line.
# 19 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Don't you think iPhone contradicts this view? It's not an iPod, it's not a laptop, it's nothing like what they've done before. In fact, iPod contradicts this view as well - when it was released, it didn't resemble anything else in Apple's product line.
It's a widescreen iPod with a phone and an OS. It's just iPod evolved.
The scaled version of OSX is no surprise to most of us because Apple has probably had it since they bought NeXT. MOst of thought we would have seen it in something years ago. I'm actually surprised it took so long. The phone thing was a 50/50 chance IMO. But your Wrong. It is an iPod, it's not a laptop, but it is not unlike Apple.
# 20 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I think a competitively priced computer would be even better. But the albino octopus is probably more realistic :lol:
# 21 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I think a competitively priced computer would be even better. But the albino octopus is probably more realistic :lol:
And I'd like a new Ferrari for under $13,000.00 but I'm realistic. 8-)
# 22 Re: What is Apples big secret?
New Logic Pro tomorrow, I reckon.
And there's got to be some new hardware to go with it.
# 23 Re: What is Apples big secret?
10.5 will bring a new UI and Finder, and Apple has held back iWork and iLife so as not to give away the new 'look' of OS X.
Because Leopard is in the wings, Apple has had to do more testing on new hardware.
The release dates of hardware were pushed back because of the software.
There's no big secret. We get a new spreadsheet, new Finder and quad core/octo core optimizations.
That's all folks.
# 24 Re: What is Apples big secret?
10.5 will bring a new UI and Finder, and Apple has held back iWork and iLife so as not to give away the new 'look' of OS X.
Because Leopard is in the wings, Apple has had to do more testing on new hardware.
The release dates of hardware were pushed back because of the software.
There's no big secret. We get a new spreadsheet, new Finder and quad core/octo core optimizations.
That's all folks.
Interesting point, but I don't think Apple wouldn't hold up the release of hardware for Leopard testing unless the new features in Leopard required some kind of change in the hardware. It doesn't make much sense to change the new hardware to match the OS when there are tons of previously shipped Macs that are going to need to run Mac OS X 10.5 on day one. In other words, you change the OS to match the hardware, not vice versa, unless the special features of the OS require some kind of change in the hardware.
# 25 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Fran:
I vaguely recall that you once had a mild infatuation with the idea of an Apple Newton replacement. You seem to have also had some inside knowledge, if declining memory serves, of said replacement being pulled at the last, the very last, minute.
Anything... going on?
V/R,
Aries 1B
# 26 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I think it's all about the UI also. I hope it's as spectacular as I dream it to be.
# 27 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I think we see a newly revamped Finder.
The UI will still look relatively the same but what it will do is where the excitement comes from. Windows will be animated (Core Animation) in a way that we simply do not see coming. Think about thinks like choosing a particular application and not having that app just pop up but rather slide into place as the other open windows gracefully aquiesce.
This would not require explicit 3rd party developer support IMO. Why do I believe this? Because Leopard finally has the tools to make this feasible.
1. Excellent scaling.
2. Resolution Independence
3. Mulithreaded OpenGL 2.1 where the UI always has a thread going.
This allows Apple to really glitz up the UI without hammering Quartz and slowing your computer down. Expect to see stuff sliding around with grace like they do on the Dock. Expect to see the UI spin on the Z axis for new looks.
Oh, god, I hope not. That sounds like useless eye candy, not adding any function at all to the UI. I sure hope Apple hasn't wasted untold programmer-hours on such froufrou.
# 28 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Steve Jobs will also announce that they have developed a solar powered car made entirely of American Cheese.
64 slices of american cheese, to be precise...
http://es.appleweblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/homer.jpg
sennen at 2007-11-17 10:13:13 >
# 29 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Listen, what do I know? I have ZERO solid information, but I have a gut feeling. My hunch is that Leopard will bring a new look, something very different than the current appearance. This is the secret feature Steve mentioned and Apple's big secret. Recently rumors of a new iMac design have surfaced and this only seemed to fuel my other speculation. That is that when Leopard arrives it will be accompanied by a new Mac with a dramatically new appearance. Basically my gut feeling tells me that the new iMac/Leopard combo will arrive together and be a bold statement from Apple, it will look nothing like the current iMac/Tiger combination. I cannot see Apple allowing MS to give Windows a dramatic makeover and then bring another version of OS X out that looks just like the versions before it.
Like I said at the beginning, what do I know?
# 30 Re: What is Apples big secret?
A different viewpoint...
Apple executed the switch to Intel processors almost flawlessly, so we've all begun to think that miracles will happen every few months; but I'm wondering if all the efforts of the past two years might have been a little exhausting for the company. Keeping the brilliant iPod phenomenon alive must have also been taxing. And when you add all the work required to put out the iPhone...
Perhaps the company simply needs a little time, to gather their strengths; before they 'Think Different' about something else.
I'm sure that new hardware and software in 2007 will be exciting evolutionary upgrades from what Apple currently sells; but I'm not quite sure that we'll be seeing a fundamental revolution in the way we use our computers.
dws at 2007-11-17 10:15:21 >
# 31 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Think Core Animation and UI. ;)
iPeon at 2007-11-17 10:16:22 >
# 32 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I think we will get...
OS X 10.5 - new look & some new features (not earth shattering but good)
New iLife & iWork - look & feel of new OS - core annimation may make a big differnece here. iWeb2, spread sheet
A redesign of 1 of the Mac lines - ? iMac
Incremental upgrades to hardware - faster processors etc - no revolution
iPhone as stated
true viPod
? new iPod Hi-Fi type things
iTunes - expansion of movies & moving to UK & other areas - ? higher resolution downloads
All great stuff, not much new revolution
Next year apple will build on aTV and the intergration of the living room experience
JMHO though!
drnat at 2007-11-17 10:17:15 >
# 33 Re: What is Apples big secret?
A different UI with only a few weeks (months, at most) of testing before release? I don't think so!
# 34 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Not necessarily so. They could introduce Finder Classic and Finder X. The first will work like the Finder we know, and Finder X is the new revamped Finder. Applications not ready for Finder X will use the 'old' Finder's features.
# 35 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Apple invented the personal computer .
In my opinion, I don't think the inventors of that device'd change the name of the company that's thier raison d'etre based only on 3 devices -- iPod/iPhone/AppleTV.
What's in store, then?
A home VR deck ?
As "drnat" mentions a real Apple TV ? [Which is what I'd like ta see]
A true "Macintosh-In-Your-Pocket" ?
The mind boggles ...
:)
CaryMG at 2007-11-17 10:20:18 >
# 36 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Apple will release a refreshed iMac a scaled down Woodcrest finally bringing quad core to their most popular desktop offering.
The sizes will be 20, 24, and 30" widescreen LCD respectively. However, the screen will not be "flat' rather they will curl inward from the edges to maximize depth of field so that even a 30" LCD feels like a 54" Plasma HDTV.
All machines will ship with 2 gigs of DDR3 RAM with two open slots offering up to 8 megs of usable RAM in the iMac platform.
Keyboard and mice will be abandoned so that Apple can finally release iOcto, a superintelligent albino octopus genetically engineered to breathe oxygen while sitting atop your head and translating your thoughts into specific octopus gestures that will be read and intepreted by the embedded iSight camera that now includes "x-ray specs mode" so that you can see yourself naked without having to actually take off clothes.
Apple will refresh their Power Mac line by removing all the processors and replacing them with a Mariachi band consisting of idiot savants who are specialists at mathematics.
The Mac Mini will be made larger to incorporate a more robust motherboard, heat sink, and scaled up Merom processor. The mini will also be outfitted with wheels, eye stalks, and pinchers much like a crab, so that it can be ordered to clean up the room where it performs its duties. Though some will complain that it still uses integrated graphics.
The refreshed Macbook will sport no screen at all but two full sized keyboards.
The refereshed Macbook pro will sport three screens, one in the traditional place, one on the back of the lid, and one where the keyboard used to be.
Apple will also release the iHat, a baseball cap decorated with Intel GMA950 graphic accelerator chips. The iHat includes an MP3 player, XM/Serius Satellite receiver, 52" Projection DLP TV, an entire DVD collection of Pixar films on a keychain mounted drive that hangs from the bill, and a 2.5 G cell phone. The iHat will only be sold through Cingular Wireless stores.
Steve Jobs will also announce that they have developed a solar powered car made entirely of American Cheese.
I can't believe that apple is gonna do all that but they're still not gonna make a mid range tower! :devil: .... :D
ecking at 2007-11-17 10:21:20 >
# 37 Re: What is Apples big secret?
A different UI with only a few weeks (months, at most) of testing before release? I don't think so!
just listen to the word:
Finder ...
compare to:
Spotlight, iTunes, TimeMachine ..
on one side, we have/had the Human Interface Guidelines...
on the other side, we see wooden bars .. (Garageband...)
What I do question is: do we need a 'Find-er' anyhow...?
Isn't the metaphor of beige, cardboxed 'files' over and done?
As I mentioned above: I do have projects, versions, histories, tagcrows ...
a static, 'Stalinistic' order ... is old fashioned.
it is not me, who likes to find things ... the machine should offer me my projects ...
and the above mentioned apps give a glimp, what's possible right now: 'intelligent' playlists, 'live' search and found, a timeline based file management...
who needs a Finder? ;)
# 38 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I don't know any "big secrets" but I do know this: Adobe has told Macworld (http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/03/26/cs3main/index.php?lsrc=mwrss) that they will be releasing upgrades to the CS 3 as soon after Leopard ships as possible.
That says to me that there are some significant architectural or functional changes in Leopard that Adobe wants to A.) take advantage of; or B.) needs to implement for functionality. :D
But I guess it could turn out to be nothing more than a cute UI too. :\
# 39 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Listen, what do I know? I have ZERO solid information, but I have a gut feeling.
Stopped reading. Not really the best way to "open" a post.
wilco at 2007-11-17 10:24:24 >
# 40 Re: What is Apples big secret?
just listen to the word:
Finder ...
compare to:
Spotlight, iTunes, TimeMachine ..
on one side, we have/had the Human Interface Guidelines...
on the other side, we see wooden bars .. (Garageband...)
What I do question is: do we need a 'Find-er' anyhow...?
Isn't the metaphor of beige, cardboxed 'files' over and done?
As I mentioned above: I do have projects, versions, histories, tagcrows ...
a static, 'Stalinistic' order ... is old fashioned.
it is not me, who likes to find things ... the machine should offer me my projects ...
and the above mentioned apps give a glimp, what's possible right now: 'intelligent' playlists, 'live' search and found, a timeline based file management...
who needs a Finder? ;)
So you expect me to Travel through time every time I mount a volume, or 'live' search everytime I put in a Query?
The Finder isn't dead yet. Just outdated.
Sebastian
Slewis at 2007-11-17 10:25:32 >
# 41 Re: What is Apples big secret?
To me, the most mind-blowing addition of all would be the integrated sensing display (http://www.macobserver.com/columns/devilsadvocate/2006/20060125lookingglass.shtml), which effectively would integrate iSight camera technology into the displays themselves, allowing for true eye-contact Jetsons-and-Spaceballs-style video conferencing. Anything short, in my opinion, leaves the iSight one generation short of the future.
The patent was filed nearly 3 years ago. I'm ready.
I'm still wrapping my head around whether that patent could really work, but that would be absolutely fascinating. To my mind -- even more than integrated iSights -- such technology opens the door to a supplemental/app-specialized gesture-based UI in Leopard. Google Perceptive Pixel's demos, google Kickaha's Facetop, and think about Google Earth with that kind of UI, plus Apple elegance and polish... and you'll see what I mean.
In any case, something is definitely brewing. Silence on Leopard. Silence on iLife '07. Not a single Mac update in 5 months. It's the quiet before the storm.
Hobbes at 2007-11-17 10:26:25 >
# 42 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Speak of the devil (http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/03/27/the-multi-touch-screen/).
Just saw this 20 minutes after I posted.
I'm becoming increasingly convinced that there's a good chance Apple is about to introduce multi-touch in Leopard... and even possibly *without* a touch-sensitive screen.
Hobbes at 2007-11-17 10:27:31 >
# 43 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I'm still wrapping my head around whether that patent could really work, but that would be absolutely fascinating. To my mind -- even more than integrated iSights -- such technology opens the door to a supplemental/app-specialized gesture-based UI in Leopard. Google Perceptive Pixel's demos, google Kickaha's Facetop, and think about Google Earth with that kind of UI, plus Apple elegance and polish... and you'll see what I mean.
Hey, relax brother! I just want to be able to make eye contact with the guy I'm talking to! :wow:
Tell you what: I'm trying my darndest to get out of debt right now, but tech like this could slip me right back in... (maybe I shouldn't be so hopeful.) :embarrass
# 44 Re: What is Apples big secret?
sorry, doublepost
# 45 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Forget about touch-sensitive displays... what about multi-touch mouse (with touch surface on top where the buttons would usually go)?
# 46 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Speak of the devil (http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/03/27/the-multi-touch-screen/).
Just saw this 20 minutes after I posted.
I'm becoming increasingly convinced that there's a good chance Apple is about to introduce multi-touch in Leopard... and even possibly *without* a touch-sensitive screen.
I remember seeing that awhile back. It was a link in another thread. I thought at that time it was very 'applesque'. No doubt the way of the future.
# 47 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Forget about touch-sensitive displays... what about multi-touch mouse (with touch surface on top where the buttons would usually go)?
I'm not sure how feasible a curved display would be, but one of the nicest things one could have would be a little touch-sensitive area instead of the scroll ball. I think the scroll ball is extremely elegant, but it's also very prone to jamming just from dust - a smooth, touch-sensitive surface would never have that problem, and would be just as easy to scroll with. An actual touchscreen on the mouse would be interesting, since it could actually display different button fields depending on whether you had it set for one-button use, two-button use, or several-button use (as you can do with the Mighty Mouse, but with the advantage of visible buttons).
# 48 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Okay, so I saw the old video. Now I saw the new video Pogue links to:
See it here ( http://www.thelastminuteblog.com/2007/03/19/new-jeff-han-video-multi-touch-ui/).
:wow: WOW, just... WOW :wow:
# 49 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Okay, so I saw the old video. Now I saw the new video Pogue links to:
See it here (http://www.thelastminuteblog.com/2007/03/19/new-jeff-han-video-multi-touch-ui/).
:wow: WOW, just... WOW :wow:
yeah, it's pretty neat.
Jobs should give this dude a job at Apple or buy his company.
This is pretty kick ass tech.:wow:
gugy at 2007-11-17 10:34:33 >
# 50 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Stopped reading. Not really the best way to "open" a post.
The point is none of us really know anything, it is ALL speculation. Lighten up.
# 51 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Anyone else remember Steve and the Sony CEO on stage at one of the conventions? They spoke of things to come in a collaboration that I assume was expected to be more involved than flaming notebook batteries...
Apple TV's per chance?
:?:
Corey at 2007-11-17 10:36:34 >
# 52 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I think the huge multitouch screens are a crummy gimmick and that for most purposes, they will be nothing more than an awkward and tiring inconvenience. On the desktop, the multitouch device is either a replacement for a conventional screen or the keyboard/pointing device. Either way it's totally awkward. Think about it... If it replaces the conventional screen you have to sit up straight and hold both of your arms out in front of you for extended periods of time. If it replaces the keyboard you have to lean over your work surface and stare down at it because there is no tactile feedback. I think it's going to be one of those things that people think is a good idea until they actually have to try and use them. Anyone who injures themself now with repetitive motion on keyboards and mice will be in a whole new world of pain with the weird shapes that multitouch could potentially squash your body into.
Pippin at 2007-11-17 10:37:43 >
# 53 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I think the huge multitouch screens are a crummy gimmick and that for most purposes, they will be nothing more than an awkward and tiring inconvenience. On the desktop, the multitouch device is either a replacement for a conventional screen or the keyboard/pointing device. Either way it's totally awkward. Think about it... If it replaces the conventional screen you have to sit up straight and hold both of your arms out in front of you for extended periods of time. If it replaces the keyboard you have to lean over your work surface and stare down at it because there is no tactile feedback. I think it's going to be one of those things that people think is a good idea until they actually have to try and use them. Anyone who injures themself now with repetitive motion on keyboards and mice will be in a whole new world of pain with the weird shapes that multitouch could potentially squash your body into.
I don't think pain will be so much an issue. I actually think it will give the majority of people some much needed exercise. But I could see it being hard to use being so close to the screen. I imagine it could cause more eye strain than anything. I could see the biggest advance is for laptop users. When I owned a laptop, every time I used it while sitting down or in bed, I just wished someone would come up with a way to stop it balancing awkwardly and I always wanted just a display.
Marvin at 2007-11-17 10:38:43 >
# 54 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I like the idea of a 3D interface, thanks to Leopard and Core Animation. Also, iLife '07 integrated with/dependent upon Leopard due to new functionality. Leopard is a 64-bit OS and all new Macs support it.
The new Macs should come between April and June and I think most will feature new looks. The iMac, MacBook Pro, and MacBook will all feature Santa Rosa and will come with some amount of flash memory onboard for Robson. The speed of these Macs will only be slightly more than what we have now in terms of GHz but they'll have better graphics and the flash will speed some things up.
I don't think I want a touch-sensitive screen on a MBP but how about a trackpad that responds the same way as the iPhone? It already responds to two fingers so why not Multitouch? The trackpad could be a small screen itself.
This is going to be a pretty exciting spring.
Rolo at 2007-11-17 10:39:45 >
# 55 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I think the huge multitouch screens are a crummy gimmick and that for most purposes, they will be nothing more than an awkward and tiring inconvenience. On the desktop, the multitouch device is either a replacement for a conventional screen or the keyboard/pointing device. Either way it's totally awkward. Think about it... If it replaces the conventional screen you have to sit up straight and hold both of your arms out in front of you for extended periods of time. If it replaces the keyboard you have to lean over your work surface and stare down at it because there is no tactile feedback. I think it's going to be one of those things that people think is a good idea until they actually have to try and use them. Anyone who injures themself now with repetitive motion on keyboards and mice will be in a whole new world of pain with the weird shapes that multitouch could potentially squash your body into.
Your totally right about the comparisons to the iPhone Multi-touch, and these huge multi-touch displays. It's looks awkward and obtrusive on the big one let alone trying to use that crap on a laptop, or desktop display. I doubt Apple is that far gone. If they tried it, they obviously abandoned it for anything other than the iPhone. That has got to be the most clunky way of working I've ever seen. I'm sure that's what SJ said the first time he tried it.
# 56 Re: What is Apples big secret?
The "M" part of WIMP isn't going away anytime soon.
Multi-touch works much better for small screens than for large screens (no question).
If Apple does introduce gestural/multitouch features to Leopard and new Macs, it will be supplemental and focused on specific kinds of interaction/navigation for specific apps.
At least at first, it will probably be more of a "wow" feature aimed at seducing potential new Mac users than something truly revolutionary.
It will still be damn cool.
Hobbes at 2007-11-17 10:41:38 >
# 57 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Supplemental is the word, and it all hinges on what kind of cool applications they come up with for it. Placement is also key. Putting the multitouch device near the monitor means you have to adjust your field of vision less, but you have to stretch your arms further. Putting it near the keyboard means you don't have to move your arms as much but you have to look down lower. Maybe there is a sweet spot somewhere inbetween? Even so, I can't really grasp the major benefits over conventional interface methods.
I would like to be proven wrong though.
Pippin at 2007-11-17 10:42:39 >
# 58 Re: What is Apples big secret?
If you had a small 4" x 6" trackpad that used multi-touch next to your desktop much like how a wacom tablet works some of those things wouldn't be such a pain in the arse, but the touch screen stuff seems really bad. Even a keyboard that had a trackpad built in would be better than what I've seen, or read.
# 59 Re: What is Apples big secret?
If you had a small 4" x 6" trackpad that used multi-touch next to your desktop much like how a wacom tablet works some of those things wouldn't be such a pain in the arse, but the touch screen stuff seems really bad. Even a keyboard that had a trackpad built in would be better than what I've seen, or read.
Problem is, that's nothing new at all. Fingerworks have had multitouch pads out for years and there are several keyboards with laptop style trackpads. When Apple do introduce multitouch to the consumer desktop market, it will be in a significantly new way.
# 60 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Problem is, that's nothing new at all. Fingerworks have had multitouch pads out for years and there are several keyboards with laptop style trackpads. When Apple do introduce multitouch to the consumer desktop market, it will be in a significantly new way.
I wasn't aware you could do two finger scaling, and all the unique things associated with multi-touch on a trackpad. It's almost crazy that some patent holder hasn't gone after the multi-touch display guy for that.
# 61 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I wasn't aware you could do two finger scaling, and all the unique things associated with multi-touch on a trackpad. It's almost crazy that some patent holder hasn't gone after the multi-touch display guy for that.
That's because Apple bought Fingerworks and now owns the patents!
# 62 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I think - and hope - that the 'Lights, Camera, Apple' invite at NAB is to do with roll out of movies and TV shows to the rest of the world, and increase in resolution to 720p for some of the content.
There's also bound to be a Mac Pro upgrade, and an announcement to the shipping date of 10.5.
I don't think there's any 'big' announcement. I wouldn't get your hopes up about a revamped Finder in Leopard either. I mean, shucks, if it means that much to you go and download PathFinder already !
# 63 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I don't think there's any 'big' announcement. I wouldn't get your hopes up about a revamped Finder in Leopard either. I mean, shucks, if it means that much to you go and download PathFinder already !
I agree with you about the NAB announcement, but in no way about secret Leopard features and the Finder. If you've seen any of the NDA'd CoreAnimation demos from WWDC, I can't stress how transparently clear it is that both the OS X GUI and the Finder are in for a serious refresh.
Hobbes at 2007-11-17 10:48:45 >
# 64 Re: What is Apples big secret?
I see Apple as an incremental company, designs slowly evolve into the next thing.
No secret(s).
That's the secret.
Most cat's sneak up in a "incremental" way to be in striking distance and then leap for the kill.
# 65 Re: What is Apples big secret?
What I would really love to see is a Tablet-PC type Macbook Pro. The kind where the screen swivels and folds down flat, holding like a piece of paper. Yes, I know this is a longshot...
If you've ever used a Tablet PC, you know they can be quite precise when used with a Stylus. The major thing that sucks (In my opinion) about tablet PCs is their screens... they are very low res. There are also none currently on the market with anything better than integrated graphics.
Apple managed to squeeze a very high res multitouch screen into a very small device (iPhone)... maybe they'll put it in their MBP's.
I, for one, would buy one in a heartbeat. I use Photoshop heavily and the potential of a touch screen + a Photoshop version made for it (CS3 maybe?) makes me giddy as a schoolgirl
# 66 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Most cat's sneak up in a "incremental" way to be in striking distance and then leap for the kill.
In this case, the Cat is in the Box, ala Schrodinger's Cat, and we can't look inside to see if its dead or not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrodinger%27s_Cat
sandau at 2007-11-17 10:51:53 >
# 67 Re: What is Apples big secret?
What I would really love to see is a Tablet-PC type Macbook Pro. The kind where the screen swivels and folds down flat, holding like a piece of paper. Yes, I know this is a longshot...
If you've ever used a Tablet PC, you know they can be quite precise when used with a Stylus. The major thing that sucks (In my opinion) about tablet PCs is their screens... they are very low res. There are also none currently on the market with anything better than integrated graphics.
Apple managed to squeeze a very high res multitouch screen into a very small device (iPhone)... maybe they'll put it in their MBP's.
I, for one, would buy one in a heartbeat. I use Photoshop heavily and the potential of a touch screen + a Photoshop version made for it (CS3 maybe?) makes me giddy as a schoolgirl
Your not the only one hoping for a tablet. I think about 70% of this forum wants one if not more, but what we argue about is if it's a laptop convert, or slate. I think they would both be a great option. I think Apple should just change the MBP to be a convertible, and also have a slate. That way no one will complain.
# 68 Re: What is Apples big secret?
So you expect me to Travel through time every time I mount a volume, or 'live' search everytime I put in a Query?..
c'mon, Sebastian...
you can do better, you know what a concept is ... ;)
a time-axis in file-management is stone-old, I've read in the early 80ies about such concepts at MIT/Medialab... that is daily routine: ... last week, I was busy with... is the common phrase, not, where is 12_01_07.doc?? ...
2nd reallife example:
is the music for your latest homemovie under Music, Garageband, Documents, Movies, Xmas-project_06, not_finished-yet and was it named version11, version12 or - oops! - MyGreatGBproject...?
3rd reallife example:
do you really 'search' in iTunes...? I type a few letters, and it offers me 'solutions' ... it's pre-indexed, that simple...- 'search' is a background operation, no human hand needed ;)
or, I flip-thru the covers, lookin' for that music with that guy with that moustache...
indexing .. THAT is the next quantum leap in computer business.. 15.000 pics, all named DSC001099 ... Fraunhofer (co inventor of mp3) is on track with some software, which allows indexing of pictures automatically...
.. and so on, and so on...
now, 10.4: 'Oscar's' trashbin.. and beige card folders... huuuuu... .:lol:
# 69 Re: What is Apples big secret?
What I would really love to see is a Tablet-PC type Macbook Pro. The kind where the screen swivels and folds down flat, holding like a piece of paper. Yes, I know this is a longshot...
If you've ever used a Tablet PC, you know they can be quite precise when used with a Stylus. The major thing that sucks (In my opinion) about tablet PCs is their screens... they are very low res. There are also none currently on the market with anything better than integrated graphics.
Apple managed to squeeze a very high res multitouch screen into a very small device (iPhone)... maybe they'll put it in their MBP's.
I, for one, would buy one in a heartbeat. I use Photoshop heavily and the potential of a touch screen + a Photoshop version made for it (CS3 maybe?) makes me giddy as a schoolgirl
I found this whilst bored at work - I don't know how many other people have seen it before but i think this fills what you would be after - it's not out yet but it will be worth waiting for.
Although it would be awesome if it looked as sleek as a normal macbook instead of two colour plastics
Modbook (http://www.axiotron.com/index.php?id=modbook)
The GPS and the whole package is going to make an excellent tablet.
# 70 Re: What is Apples big secret?
To me, the most mind-blowing addition of all would be the integrated sensing display (http://www.macobserver.com/columns/devilsadvocate/2006/20060125lookingglass.shtml), which effectively would integrate iSight camera technology into the displays themselves, allowing for true eye-contact Jetsons-and-Spaceballs-style video conferencing. Anything short, in my opinion, leaves the iSight one generation short of the future.
The patent was filed nearly 3 years ago. I'm ready.
Very true. I've been hoping for the same thing. I know if anyone could figure out how to do it Apple could.
# 71 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Although I feel as much as anyone here that the Mac Tablet ain't gonna happen, Multitouch could conceivably make it happen...and... in such a revolutionary way that no one has yet thought of before. Apple likes to change the way we think of conventional computing and if they were to do it again I think we would see something in the design realm of a tablet that is half the thickness of a Macbook/ Macbook Pro but is nothing but screen space. The multitouch would totally replace the mouse/trackpad interface and the keyboard would pop up on screen like it does with the iPhone. It might include a stylus for handwriting recognition but I doubt it. Just think about what you use your mouse/trackpad for aside from clicking? Not much right? Click this click that, maybe click and drag, but nothing really that can't be replaced with simple tapping of fingers and finger gestures. The hard part is getting it intuitive enough for people to learn it. I envision a device that looks the same general shape as a laptop computer but is half the thickness and has a full screen on on side and nothing on the other, a real 'tablet-like' device that has no hinges, no slide out keyboard, no nothing. Just a screen to interact with. This will not happen anytime soon mind you but maybe in a year or two this is where they will be headed.
# 72 Re: What is Apples big secret?
To me, the most mind-blowing addition of all would be the integrated sensing display (http://www.macobserver.com/columns/devilsadvocate/2006/20060125lookingglass.shtml), which effectively would integrate iSight camera technology into the displays themselves, allowing for true eye-contact Jetsons-and-Spaceballs-style video conferencing. Anything short, in my opinion, leaves the iSight one generation short of the future.
The patent was filed nearly 3 years ago. I'm ready.
Sensing display could be used for multytouch but there is no way (currently) it could replace iSight.
shadow at 2007-11-17 10:58:04 >
# 73 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Hmm:err:
L'see. Apples big secret!
Is that they've always had alien technology hidden in the closet and they are milking it for all its worth. Kinda like George Lucas putting out various packages of STAR WARS on VHS tape exhausting that market AND ONLY THEN putting it on DVD, and tapping that market with various "iterations" of the movies. Like Disney too with its timed releases. Or like auto manufacturers and oil companies putting technology on ice so they can first tap out the fossil fuelmarket and THEN spring the high tech "water engine" or some crap like that on us.
YEP Apple has alien technology on dry ice in the subterranean vault 5 miles below the home office in Cupertino and they are giving us little crumbs every so often!:lol: :lol: :lol: :wow:
# 74 Re: What is Apples big secret?
Imagine this.
A tablet. A laptop. A Multi-Touch Mac.
13" Widescreen Multi-touch LCD
Hinged at both sides to 2 equal sized 'flaps'
When closed, it looks like a traditional Macbook PRO, but with a divided middle.
Open both sides a full 180 degrees and reveal the tablet/multi-touch display.
Open the DVD/Hard Drive 'flap' and place it perpendicular to the desktop, serving as a 'stand' for the display; leaving the multi-touch display at roughly a 30 degree angle to the user.
Open the Keyboard 'flap' and you have a traditional mechanical keyboard below the multi-touch display.
What you get:
A fully-featured and usable tablet
A fully-featured and usable desktop
A fully-featured and usable Multi-Touch Display
A fully-featured and usable mechanical keyboard with tactile feedback
I don't have the time/energy to create the mockup, but hopefully you get the idea.
# 75 Re: What is Apples big secret?
What is Apple's big secret?
The drop of the 40y old 'Desktop'-Metaphor..:
trash cans, folders, ... and, hey, what is a 'file' anyhow? I'm doing projects, versions...
I don't know if this is where you were going with this, but I think I've just found a use for the now-old-but-never-implemented "piles" metaphor.
"Piles" always semed to me to be a poor addition to the Finder metaphor--an unecessary complication since one could easily just create a new subfolder. This is probably why Apple never implemented it.
But version management is a huge issue now in a wide range of envronments. That *is* something that can be simplified. Anyone who's tried to use MS Office's "Track Changes" tool--and survived without pounding his or her skull into the pavement--knows what I mean.
So instead of "piling" closely related docs that could just as easily be gouped into a subfolder, Apple could implement the "pile" metaphor (with the help of Time Machine) as a versioning system.
Of course, this requires support from developers if anything useful--like comparing and accepting or rejecting changes--is to be done with it. So it's probably not one of the supposed (and probably underwhelming and non-revolutionary) "secret" features. But it would still probably be a cool idea.
DCQ at 2007-11-17 11:01:01 >
# 76 Re: What is Apples big secret?
... But it would still probably be a cool idea.
sure, isn't the coverflow in iTunes nothing else then a gigantic pile.. ??
TimeMachine too 'flips' thru a RoloDex of 'versions' ..
the now common high res monitors and the announced 'scalable' Desktop design allow such eye-candy..
one of the main functions (the only one?), an average user is confronted with by using a 'System' is file-management.. If Apple manages it, to do the file management automatically (= add to my list: death of the 'save' button), as some background process, and would offer new 'dialog' screens, in which the user can intuitively select (instead of find) his versions, and projects, and ...
.. that would be nice!
