Vodafone seen as frontrunner for European iPhone contract

Apple will have to try a little harder with the iPhone in Europe I suspect. The market there is a little more mature, and the iPhone seems to be lacking some features that may be expected, for example multimedia messaging (MMS) as well as text messaging. Another example: it's not clear that the iPhone will work with the mobile video downloads now commonly offered by European TV channels, which would seem wrong for such an expensive device. Still, I'm sure some of these shortcomings will be adressed before launch - I guess the extra time is in part to allow the implementation of 3G or another high speed standard, now quite widespread in Europe. A strong partner like vodaphone can only help Apple adapt the device to the market.

D

Dear Apple

Please ensure you look closely at Vodafone's customer service record and satisfy yourself that the "200 million subscriber base, broad country coverage, and investment in advanced technologies" aren't blinding you to the one reason I would not choose this company unless I absolutely had to.

I really want an iPhone, but I really, really don't want to be on a contract with Vodafone. I hope you can convince me that you make the right choice for what *I* need from a mobile comms company. If you must go with this operator at least let me have the option to pay full whack for the handset and just have a monthly contract, as I did with O2 and my Sony Ericsson K800i. I don't like to be tied to anyone - it gives them free reign for shoddy service. (O2, I have to say, though, are very good, even if their website and Safari sometimes aren't on the best of terms).

Apple has yet to say with which international carriers it plans to partner on iPhone distribution, but one Wall Street analyst is citing sources in saying that heavyweight Vodafone is all but a shoe-in for Europe.

Hmm ... whilst Vodafone might have their foot (and enclosing shoe) in the door with Apple, I think what is at issue is them being a shoo-in.

Hmm ... whilst Vodafone might have their foot (and enclosing shoe) in the door with Apple, I think what is at issue is them being a shoo-in.

They talk about 3G technology for the iPhone in the first half of '08. Can someone please clarify, is 3G technology something that would be internally related to the iPhone as a hardware component or software component.

Remember Steve Job's lament about, and I am paraphrasing, "what if something new and great came along, what are the smart phone manufacturers going to do, add another plastic button, the phones are already out there".

When the iPhone becomes 3G able an/or more storage available than the maximum 8GB, would that apply to the iPhone (first generation) as being able to upgrade utilizing these updates? Or do you have to go out and spend another $499.00 to $599.00 for another phone?

My god, no, not Vodafone.

I'd rather use 3 in that case.

NOT Vodaphone......they are everything Apple is not. O2 maybe, orange even better but Vodaphone will kill the product. Lets hope Apples Market Research team are screaming at them...."No!"

I live in the UK, and I've been on O2 for years. They're alright, but a bit of a scam. I recently switched to T-Mobile who are good, but because they are based in the US also that would cause alot of problems with AT&T I guess.

The #1 network in the UK for Apple I guess is Orange, because they are cheap in some ways, easy to deal with and have lots of customers who trust them and enjoy using their network. Orange also extends to parts of Europe, as I see when I'm roaming.

Another network they could use is 3, but I think that it's based in the UK only and for anything 2G, it uses other networks (Orange, switching to O2 soon I think).

Meh.

-tj

Another network they could use is 3, but I think that it's based in the UK only and for anything 2G, it uses other networks (Orange, switching to O2 soon I think).

It exists in Sweden too, with fallback to Vodafone/Telenor for GSM.

awww.. not vodaphone...

A phone without SMS/text messaging. They'd sell three (ok, perhaps four) units in the whole of Europe. :lol:

If Apple are going to stick with EDGE for the initial European release of the iPhone, it would make sense that Apple goes with Orange. MacFormat states that Orange is the only network (at least in the UK) that offers an EDGE service.

Something the iPhone will definitely need as long as it is not 3G

i reckon it would be better if they supported 3G (UTMS), it is more widely used in Europe. i can see why EDGE was chosen in the US but that shouldn't be reason to to the same for Europe.

regarding networks, as i mentoined above, O2 would seem like the obvious choice. However, choice is nice! and it would be better if it was not just one carrier. iPhones for all networks... bring it on!

I don't think they will do MMS, as that is why the iPhone features real email - you can attach as many files as large as you want, and as much text as you want, without being imposed by size and character limits like MMS.

But you can't address them to a phone number. That's an annoyance for me. I want to send pics to someone whose email I don't know... with iPhone, I'm screwed.

I live in the UK, and I've been on O2 for years. They're alright, but a bit of a scam. I recently switched to T-Mobile who are good, but because they are based in the US also that would cause alot of problems with AT&T I guess.

The #1 network in the UK for Apple I guess is Orange, because they are cheap in some ways, easy to deal with and have lots of customers who trust them and enjoy using their network. Orange also extends to parts of Europe, as I see when I'm roaming.

Another network they could use is 3, but I think that it's based in the UK only and for anything 2G, it uses other networks (Orange, switching to O2 soon I think).

Meh.

-tj

If they go with Orange, they'd get all the Apples and Oranges jokes into their ads.

I'm on 3 now. Quite happy with them -- they can roam on both Orange and O2 (I was on a far-flung Scottish isle recently and 3 had the best signal, because they weren't tied to one company's transmitters). I'd switch to Orange if needed, but not Vodafone. Orange had great customer service, and I only left them for price. Voda were cheap but the service was shit.

Meanwhile, reports obtained by both AppleInsider and other Wall Street analysts have suggested that Apple could introduce a version of the iPhone based on 3G wireless technology in Europe during the first half of 2008.

Don't you mean.. meanwhile Apple is just going to release only a 3G version in Europe in the fourth quarter of 2007, doing a similar move which Sony did when they decided not to release the crippled version of its product in Euopre.

In the US Wi-Fi is much more ubiquitous than 3G, so Apple had good reasons to go with Edge there. The same does not apply to Europe, at this moment in time Wi-Fi is basically non-existent here, so 3G is needed.

Vodafone seems a 'sensible' choice for Apple.

It allows for a broader release across Europe and potentially the rest of the world. One company to negotiate with, rather than 20 smaller companies. Vodafone are both a big 2G player and big 3G player (otherwise Three would also be worthwhile). I guess T-mobile could be problematic due to US competition.

That said - if Vodafone isn't much good in the UK that's bad. In Australia they're quite good, in NZ they're great. Unfortunately I'm on prepaid so I can't get data allowances for any internet connectivity or email... then again we can be pretty sure that the Apple phone is not targetted at the prepaid audiences!

They talk about 3G technology for the iPhone in the first half of '08. Can someone please clarify, is 3G technology something that would be internally related to the iPhone as a hardware component or software component.
3G is a hardware requirement, it is a substantial improvement.

I find it interesting that bothe the biggest network in the US, and outside of the US are both vilified here.

Despite the fact that people here don't seem to like them, they ARE the biggest networks, and they are picking up new customers at a good clip.

Obviously, someone likes them.

Apple would be foolish to go with a small service just because some people think they are better.

And as there isn'r even an agreement as to which smaller service is better here, you all disagree with each other!

Apple is still better off going with the biggest.
I think it is the case that each network has it's own pros and cons. Everyone is different. No one network will be able to cater for everyone. This is why there is competition.

Currently I do not use the phone enough to make it worthwhile having a contract, thus I'm on pay as you go.

In the US Wi-Fi is much more ubiquitous than 3G, so Apple had good reasons to go with Edge there. The same does not apply to Europe, at this moment in time Wi-Fi is basically non-existent here, so 3G is needed.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061206-8369.html

This article indicates the UK and Ireland have the largest number of hot spots per capita in the world.

oberpongo pointed out in this thread that T-mobile had 10,000 hotspots - that article indicates the US has 26,000

I rented an apartment in Switzerland in Jan/feb that had a wireless network.

So exactly how does all that equate to non-existent?

The BIGGEST problem with Vodaphone and Orange for that matter too, is their data charges. Neither offer an all in plan. You pay 2.35 per MB. That will kill an internet phone. T-Mobile charge 7.50 for unlimited data per month. Unless Vodafone change their pricing structures there's no way I'm getting an iPhone on Vodafone.

As to which is best, I generally find Vodaphone has slightly better coverage and Orange much better customer service. I'm on both currently.

Grrrrr also being in the UK I echo the NOT VODAFONE sentiment very strongly. If this is all Apple will allow in the UK then I'll certainly not be buying an iPhone.

Why? Because Vodafone specialise in screwing the customer, that's why. I took out an 18 month contract last year that included a 100 text / 33 MMS / 5.5MB data package. 15 days later they took away the 33 MMS messages from the package because apparently "consumer research" said that many people were unaware that they had them therefore they weren't needed and we could pay extra for them :rolleyes: .

A couple of weeks ago they sent a mail saying they are taking data out of the text bundles as well - at the moment 100 texts is roughly 5.5MB data and I use some data each month (around 2-3MB spread over the month). So now they want me to pay for that as well for alledgedly the same "consumer research" reasons.

So basically, when you have found a contract with Vodafone that does what you want, it's worthless. They chop and change it as they like with total contempt for their existing customers. I've never experienced anything like it in 10 years of mobile phone contracts.

I really hope this is just a very bad rumour... :devil:

All the mobile phone networks suck one way or the other, so it is a matter of which sucks less and this will depend on your own circumstances.

3 (aka. Hutchinson), only do 3G and not 'ordinary' GSM, this would preclude iPhone users being able to roam between the US and Europe for example, and would logically rule them out.

Orange (aka. France Telecom), the only one to do EDGE in the UK so that's a plus point. Also has some Wifi hotspots, but like all the other commercial Wifi providers charges bankrupting prices to use them. Orange charges the most expensive data roaming prices of them all. For example someone worked out that a UK Orange customer roaming to the US and then downloading an iTunes music track would be charged nearly 100!!! (and that excludes the 0.79 Apple charge). See http://news.zdnet.co.uk/communications/0,1000000085,39234846,00.htm

T-Mobile. Has the advantage of having their own Wifi hotspots, but like all the other commercial Wifi providers charges bankrupting prices to use them. For an individual T-Mobile offer the best 'unlimited' data tariff which on a cost per bit basic works out to be a sixth the cost Vodafone charge.

o2 (aka. Telefonica). Has no Wifi hot-spots of its own but is a bigger player than Orange or T-Mobile (at least in the UK). Very expensive data costs.

Vodafone. The biggest network company in the world. Historically has been 'Mac friendly' in supplying Mac compatible datacards earlier than its competitors and is currently the only one offering a USB 3G/HSDPA data 'card' which works with MacBooks in the UK (the other networks still only offer PC-Card devices which will not work with MacBook or MacBook Pro laptops).

If I was looking at this as an individual then T-Mobile on paper would be the best, however they along with Orange here in the UK use the 'wrong' frequency (900MHz instead of 1800MHz) which means they don't work in my cars built-in phone system.

From a business point of view all of them without exception suck big time in terms of data costs when you are looking at multiple users. O2 and Vodafone for example charge about 12 per month per handset on top of which you then pay for the data allowance, so this means I would have to pay HUNDREDS of pounds a month (thousands a year) before I even get to pay for or use any data for our companies users.

It is the fact that all the network companies suck that lead to a lot of people hoping originally that Apple was going to setup their own network or become an MNVO (Mobile Network Virtual Operator), sadly events since have shown this is not going to happen and we will still be stuck with the brain dead idiots running the current networks.

Here in the UK the same idiots who run the mobile phone networks also run the majority of Wifi hotspots and will likely also run [or more accurately ruin] WiMax which mean WiMax will also be crippled with extortionate fees and not turn out to be the 'great white hope' that I and others had been hoping for.

Note: 'free' Wifi in the UK is practically non existent, apart from of course the 9 Apple stores :) . The UK may have plenty of Wifi hotspots but they are nearly all commercial and cost literally a small fortune to use. To show you how outrageous the costs are, an Internet Caf charges an average of 1 an hour, for this they have to rent office space, pay for lighting, heating, furniture, staff, computers, electricity, and Internet bandwidth, whereas for a Wifi hotspot the only costs are Internet bandwidth, a little electricity, and possible a small rental to stick their equipment on a lamp post or building (i.e. a fraction of the costs of an Internet Caf), and yet Wifi hotspots cost an average of 8 ($16) an hour with lots of limitations!!!

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061206-8369.html

This article indicates the UK and Ireland have the largest number of hot spots per capita in the world.

oberpongo pointed out in this thread that T-mobile had 10,000 hotspots - that article indicates the US has 26,000

I rented an apartment in Switzerland in Jan/feb that had a wireless network.

So exactly how does all that equate to non-existent?

I believe it would be more accurate to say that free wifi is non-existent. To use most of the public hotspots here you need to get your credit card out and navigate some hideous web payment page.

All the mobile phone networks suck one way or the other, so it is a matter of which sucks less and this will depend on your own circumstances.

3 (aka. Hutchinson), only do 3G and not 'ordinary' GSM, this would preclude iPhone users being able to roam between the US and Europe for example, and would logically rule them out.

You can still use a 3 phone fine on ordinary GSM. Even though they don't own the masts, it's a transparent switch to the consumer, and you don't pay any more.

For the record, if you take a phone from the UK to Europe, you pay roaming charges even if you're using the same company. So if I'm on Orange, and I go to France and still connect to Orange, I pay the same flat rate roaming charge as if I had connected to any other French network.

This whole debate reminds me of the criticism of the iPods because don't have some feature or other, and so certain people simply won't buy them.

I hardly think Apple cares. The fact is that most people will be happy enough with any carrier that has the phone, if they want it. All carriers have gotten better over the years, and will continue to do so.

Suggesting that Apple should go with some small carrier for ANY reason is ridiculous. It simply isn't going to happen.

The problem with Wu's analysis on this subject is he doesn't seem to know squat about the European phone business. Phone manufacturers never lock themselves in to single carriers.

Then again, it's Apple not Nokia or Sony Ericsson here so perhaps they'll be so equally clueless as to do some crazy single carrier deal. I'll not mind if it's T-Mobile, otherwise the data charges will be so extortionately high that there will be absolutely no point in the iPhone because it'll be too expensive to actually use.

I believe it would be more accurate to say that free wifi is non-existent. To use most of the public hotspots here you need to get your credit card out and navigate some hideous web payment page.

You can still use a 3 phone fine on ordinary GSM. Even though they don't own the masts, it's a transparent switch to the consumer, and you don't pay any more.

For the record, if you take a phone from the UK to Europe, you pay roaming charges even if you're using the same company. So if I'm on Orange, and I go to France and still connect to Orange, I pay the same flat rate roaming charge as if I had connected to any other French network.

That's not true

rates depend on which company is friends with your own. you pay far less if you stay in the same franchise. Like Orange-France Telecom-Mobistar (Belgium)-... or Vodaphone-Proximus (Bel)-... or KPN-Hi-Bouygues Telecom (Fra)-Base (Bel)-...

But Roaming is going to get a lot cheaper in Europe. Something we have to thank EU bureaucrats for. They finally get to call cheaper back home and the rest of us during holidays!

Ireland: Stop talking, you're making a fool of yourself. WiFi is so widespread in Belgium (EU) that I can check 5 networks wherever I am. Getting on them is difficult (most private or paying), but a lot are unprotected private ones. A lot of bars are getting actual free WiFi .
I think the iPhone won't be limited by provider but by technology. If your provider uses the new 3G (HSDPA) than you'll have the iPhone immediately, the rest will just have to waite or use the phone as an expensive limited smart phone who happens to be a damn good iPod.

MZ
Hoping for a not locked in iPhone.

That's not true

rates depend on which company is friends with your own. you pay far less if you stay in the same franchise. Like Orange-France Telecom-Mobistar (Belgium)-... or Vodaphone-Proximus (Bel)-... or KPN-Hi-Bouygues Telecom (Fra)-Base (Bel)-...

No, I believe you're wrong -- it's a flat rate per country. If I go to France, I pay x per minute, regardless of which network I use when I'm there.

Hi

I have to say that I have had a very bad experience with Vodafone UK, friends of mine have had problems also with customers service from Vodafone. I would hope that Apple uses a company like orange, as they treat their customers better.

I doubt I will get an iPhone if Vodafone is the provider, sounds a bit extreme but it's just not worth owning an iPhone if I have to deal with Vodafone again. :(

Tim

And 3 offer free roaming for calls to and from your home country if you are in a country that has a 3 network (currently Hong Kong, Australia, UK, Sweeden, Italy, Ireland and Denmark) and the calls is taken/made on that network. I did this whilst I was in Hong Kong recently and have not had to pay a penny in roaming charges which was great. It's called Like Home (http://www.three.co.uk/personal/coverage_/going_abroad_/index.omp)

Personally I would like to see Three to get the iPhone. Their packages are value for money in my opinion and their service is great.

I agree that whoever gets the deal, if they charge stupid amounts for data usage, then it will cause pain for alot of users.

As for the comment about Vodafone placing their software on the phone, Orange and 3 (to a lesser amount, do the same thing. For me, the way Orange do it annoys me personally (I was with them for two years).

Charel, operators will offer suppliers money for marketing the phone, etc, if they are given exclusivity for the device and the operator gauges that the device is in demand. It is was what Palm did with the Treo 750