Categories: Misc / DotNet / Java / Coder / Linux / PHP Ask - La ask - La Answer

Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report

Several recent developments on Apple's iPhone strategy have compelled one analyst to raise his estimates and price target on shares of the company, such as word that the iPod maker is seriously considering a move to subsidize the cost of the handset through rebates or other means.

Rebates or subsidies

In an in-depth research note released to clients on Tuesday, American Technology analyst Shaw Wu cited sources who indicate that a mail-in rebate or carrier subsidy for iPhone of $50-150 is under serious consideration by the Cupertino-based electronics firm.

"We are hearing rebates of $50-150 that will be offered by AT&T to lower the price points for iPhone (currently $499 for 4 GB and $599 for 8 GB) and to entice customers to sign longer term voice and data contracts," the analyst wrote. "From AT&T's perspective, a rebate is a great marketing tool and small sacrifice to make to entice a customer to sign up for 2-year voice and data cell phone plans that cost about $75-100 per month (before taxes and fees), meaning $1800-2400 in 'guaranteed' bi-annual revenue."

Revenue share and bounties

Wu also told clients that he believes Apple will be paid a "bounty" for each AT&T customer it signs up through its retail and online stores. "In addition, Apple will likely participate in a revenue sharing agreement where part of the monthly fee charged to customers will go to Apple ," he explained. "Besides the hardware, Apple 's value added for the iPhone to AT&T is its marketing, customer service, and unique software and features, including visual voicemail and the most complete PC experience on a cell phone."

Recurring revenue streams from carriers

In addition, the AmTech analyst estimates Apple to garner "mid to high single digit incremental high margin revenue per user" from its carrier partner, which could potentially surge as high as "low double digits" depending on future iPhone features.

"We view this incremental revenue from the carriers for Apple 's value-added as positive in that it will likely be very high margin, in the 80 percent range, similar to royalty and/or intellectual property (IP) revenue where there is little incremental cost," he wrote. "We believe this recurring revenue stream is high quality and adds an additional degree of stability and predictability to Apple 's financial results."

Adding Apple to AmTech's Focus List

As a result of his findings, Wu has placed Apple on AmTech's "Focus List" while also raising his estimates and price target on consumer electronics firm.

For fiscal 2008, the analyst now estimates Apple to generate sales of $31.1 billion and per-share earnings of $4.15, up from $28.8 billion and $3.75. His model assumes sales of 3.45 million iPhone units during the fiscal year, up from a previously conservative view of 790,000 units. Still, he said, estimates could turn out conservative depending on Apple 's ability to introduce lower cost cell phones which he believes could significantly raise unit assumptions.

"We continue to view Apple as among the strongest fundamental stories with its four-pronged vertically integrated end-to-end portfolio (Mac, iPod + iTunes, Apple TV, and iPhone) and see several catalysts in the quarters ahead, including Mac OS X Leopard, new Macs, new iPods, new movie and carrier partners, and lower cost cell phones," the analyst reiterated in his note to clients.

Wu also raised his price target on shares of Apple to $145 from $118.[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2670)

[ Digg this story ] (http://digg.com/apple/Apple_seriously_considering_50_150_iPhone_rebate_w _service_contract)
[3828 byte] By [AppleInsider] at [2007-11-16 2:55:38]
# 1 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Wu is a douche-bag. He is fabricating "insider info" to affect stock prices and/or getting investors behind him to bully Apple into doing what he wants it to.

And anyone who knows Apple knows that they would NEVER support "mail-in" rebates. They'd sooner cut their own prices before stooping to that level.

-Clive
Clive At Five at 2007-11-17 11:01:13 >
# 2 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Wow! Up to 145 from 118. On a 1 year target? That is amazing. I've never really gotten a straight answer though. Is this a 12 month target, renewed every time the new target is announced, or is it a target for some specific date?
bdj21ya at 2007-11-17 11:02:22 >
# 3 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Wu also raised his price target on shares of Apple to $145 from $118.

This guy seems to be glowing with positive thoughts about Apple lately, doesn't he?
HiddenWolf at 2007-11-17 11:03:20 >
# 4 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
This guy seems to be glowing with positive thoughts about Apple lately, doesn't he?

You're new eh?
Ireland at 2007-11-17 11:04:15 >
# 5 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
"We continue to view Apple as among the strongest fundamental stories with its four-pronged vertically integrated end-to-end portfolio (Mac, iPod + iTunes, Apple TV, and iPhone) and see several catalysts in the quarters ahead, including Mac OS X Leopard, new Macs, new iPods, new movie and carrier partners, and lower cost cell phones," the analyst reiterated in his note to clients.

I hope Apple has that iPhone Nano's design process done already. A shuffle in a sleek phone from Apple with a great UI would be my phone of choice. I've that €300 ready and waiting.
Ireland at 2007-11-17 11:05:25 >
# 6 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
12 months out from now, is what is usally implied. But this excerted bit is refering to AAPL '08 revenue so it would be fair of Wu to claim a win at any point from when Apple projects '08 rev all the way up till how the market prices AAPL after the 4th qtr of Apple's fiscal '08 is reported.

Just an individual investor not an expert but this how I make my living so I have a fair handle on how to interpret these things. Average better than 20% returns from a diversified portfolio of over 80 companies. I'm usally analizing another 40 or so companies to have options of where I can realocate capital as long holdings become sells in part or full.

Wu and Munster take a lot of heat here, some of it fair but mostly I think most of us are just wishing we could be so fortunate. Paid to follow the forums, paid to attend every event that has any releavance and paid to wine and dine anyone that could provide the slightest of hints as to what really goes on behind closed doors, and last but not least to have a name that just might get your phone call responded to at an executive level from within Apple even if they won't take your call.
128pluspb100siduo230 at 2007-11-17 11:06:24 >
# 7 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Hmm... Apple announces that it's new OS is late and the analysts predict higher stock prices... Seems to go with how the price drops after new announcements!
EruIthildur at 2007-11-17 11:07:26 >
# 8 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Wu is a douche-bag. He is fabricating "insider info" to affect stock prices and/or getting investors behind him to bully Apple into doing what he wants it to.

And anyone who knows Apple knows that they would NEVER support "mail-in" rebates. They'd sooner cut their own prices before stooping to that level.

-Clive

Apple does do mail-in rebates. The back-to-school Mac+iPod promotion was one.
mark2005 at 2007-11-17 11:08:29 >
# 9 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
At first glance, the $145 target is quite a leap. I don't think there are any other analysts that are beyond $130, and most are still between $100 and $110.

If Wu's not pushing this simply to drive up the price (so he can sell), then he must be pretty confident in his sources. And if Apple and AT&T make this speculated "revenue-sharing" plan happen where the handset maker gets a portion of the recurring monthly revenue, that's a pretty big change in how the cellular market works, and the $145 moves into the realm of the possible.

Go Apple!
mark2005 at 2007-11-17 11:09:27 >
# 10 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Wow! Up to 145 from 118. On a 1 year target? That is amazing. I've never really gotten a straight answer though. Is this a 12 month target, renewed every time the new target is announced, or is it a target for some specific date?

Apple's fiscal year ends in September. Wu's target is for September 2008. His previous $118 target was for this September, and was based on iPhone sales. I'm not sure how much the delay of Leopard would influence this years's target, but he is obviously skipping the issue by predicting September 2008 by which time Leopard will be hunting in the tall grass..
willrob at 2007-11-17 11:10:28 >
# 11 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
At first glance, the $145 target is quite a leap. I don't think there are any other analysts that are beyond $130, and most are still between $100 and $110.

If Wu's not pushing this simply to drive up the price (so he can sell), then he must be pretty confident in his sources. And if Apple and AT&T make this speculated "revenue-sharing" plan happen where the handset maker gets a portion of the recurring monthly revenue, that's a pretty big change in how the cellular market works, and the $145 moves into the realm of the possible.

Go Apple!

If this call is intended to drive up the price it is not working, at least today.
Maybe "Wall Street" disrespects Wu as much as AI members.:p
quinney at 2007-11-17 11:11:24 >
# 12 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Rebates on a cell phone?

Shocker.
ChevalierMalFet at 2007-11-17 11:12:23 >
# 13 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
A target price is based on what the analyst thinks the company is really worth.

The idea behind it: As the market comes to realize how right the analyst was in his predictions of future revenue and profit of the company, the stock price will move towards the target price.

It also gives an indication on whether the analyst thinks the stock is currently undervalued or overvalued. Similarily, it also gives you an indication as to when you should consider selling the stock - given that you believe the analyst got it right on all points.

Does that help you?
ak1808 at 2007-11-17 11:13:30 >
# 14 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
does jobs really believe that everybody is going to dish out 75-100 a month for a voice and data plan? plus hundreds (rebate or not) for the phone itself? on which planet does this guy live? i make six figures but am not willing to pay more than 15 a month or so for unlimited data (thats with sprint by the way). and i wont switch to att just because of a fancy shmancy phone! so if i happen to be his target group, he is in for a surprise.
palex9 at 2007-11-17 11:14:25 >
# 15 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
does jobs really believe that everybody is going to dish out 75-100 a month for a voice and data plan? plus hundreds (rebate or not) for the phone itself? on which planet does this guy live? i make six figures but am not willing to pay more than 15 a month or so for unlimited data (thats with sprint by the way). and i wont switch to att just because of a fancy shmancy phone! so if i happen to be his target group, he is in for a surprise.

This article is just Wu talking out of his bum. Don't believe it until you see it in writing from at&t or Apple.
SpamSandwich at 2007-11-17 11:15:26 >
# 16 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Totally agree, palex9. They are in for a surprise if they think that very many people will shell out for an overpriced data and voice plan. The slow EDGE data plan for a two year contract better be reasonable and/or subsidized.
mugwump at 2007-11-17 11:16:30 >
# 17 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
...does jobs really believe that everybody is going to dish out 75-100 a month for a voice and data plan?

No doubt. I've known folks that pay close to $150 a month on cell.
ChevalierMalFet at 2007-11-17 11:17:28 >
# 18 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
No doubt. I've known folks that pay close to $150 a month on cell.

Yeah, this is definitely a phone for the rich. With a 2 year plan for 75-100 plan plus phone you're looking at a starting price of 2300-3000 plus whatever extra talk time and data isn't covered by the plan. Then, at the end of the 2 years, the battery is down to max 30-45 min. of talk time per charge, and you can choose to pay a hundred bucks to send the phone to apple and get a replacement, or buy the "much better" new model, and then the whole process starts again...

I find it interesting that people are expecting a "cheaper" version to come out. What features will they remove to make it cheap enough for the average user? I can't think of anything you could do to tone this one down without making it just another phone...
Superbass at 2007-11-17 11:18:33 >
# 19 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
does jobs really believe that everybody is going to dish out 75-100 a month for a voice and data plan? plus hundreds (rebate or not) for the phone itself? on which planet does this guy live? i make six figures but am not willing to pay more than 15 a month or so for unlimited data (thats with sprint by the way). and i wont switch to att just because of a fancy shmancy phone! so if i happen to be his target group, he is in for a surprise.

Cingular charges $19.99/month for an uniimited EDGE data plan, with voice plans that start about $30. There's no reason to believe that the iPhone would mandate a more expensive plan, although they may tack on charges for the extra network features, i.e. visual voicemail.
ai51240 at 2007-11-17 11:19:31 >
# 20 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
I find it interesting that people are expecting a "cheaper" version to come out. What features will they remove to make it cheap enough for the average user? I can't think of anything you could do to tone this one down without making it just another phone...

Uh..do you know how the tech economy works? When the first iPod came out, it was more expensive than most iPods today, had almost no storage, no clickwheel, no color screen, no video, and was big and clunky. Today the average nano is 10x better and cheaper, too. The iPhone will follow the same path.
McHuman at 2007-11-17 11:20:31 >
# 21 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Superbass, the price will come down in the same way it did for the iPod. CPUs, storage media, the LCD, other components will drop in price, manufacturing will shore up a bit, and the line will diversify. It may take a year or two rather than the month or so the immediate gratification brigade is targeting, but it'll happen. Personally, I'll probably buy one when the unlocked model hits $400-$500. By then it'll be about time to replace my unlocked RAZR anyway.
ChevalierMalFet at 2007-11-17 11:21:37 >
# 22 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Yeah, this is definitely a phone for the rich.

If you put about $2500 into apple stock today, by fall it will pretty much pay for the iPhone. :smokey: ;)
McHuman at 2007-11-17 11:22:36 >
# 23 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
If they offered a $150 mail-in rebate on the 8GB iPhone I might just be tempted to switch carriers and acquire one! :)
Apparatus at 2007-11-17 11:23:37 >
# 24 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
And anyone who knows Apple knows that they would NEVER support "mail-in" rebates. They'd sooner cut their own prices before stooping to that level.

Umm, Apple offers mail-in rebates every back to school season on their iPods.
damiansipko at 2007-11-17 11:24:36 >
# 25 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
$30 for voice + $20 for data and I am in, but not for 70 to 100.
I am not afraid of the handset cost that is a one time cost, I am afraid of the recurring monthly charges.

Come to think of it, the wife wants one and my kid also, thats 3 phones plus whatever the cost for a family plan for 2 years, ouch!!!!!!!!!!
EagerDragon at 2007-11-17 11:25:39 >
# 26 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
How long until Apple announces a delay with the iPhone?
wilco at 2007-11-17 11:26:40 >
# 27 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
$30 for voice + $20 for data and I am in, but not for 70 to 100.
I am not afraid of the handset cost that is a one time cost, I am afraid of the recurring monthly charges.

Come to think of it, the wife wants one and my kid also, thats 3 phones plus whatever the cost for a family plan for 2 years, ouch!!!!!!!!!!

I too have no problem for the handset cost for me and my daughter. However, I hope they will offer a family plan for data/email surfing/web surfing. Then I would be fine with me. My problem is also the same as yours, multiple recurring cost streams for the service beyond the voice plan.

FYI, I've had a BB before and my wife has one now --BUT I am yet to find a single phone that can get me to websites and look up info. NYTimes, or Yahoo Finance or Google News or Google search.

This is what I hope the Iphone will change--but given AT&T wirlesss tech I am not so sure. IT may be still be PRETTY slow!
ashraman at 2007-11-17 11:27:45 >
# 28 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Assuming this is correct, sounds like they anounced the price before sufficient research.

Many of us said that it was overpriced by 100 dollars. While it is two devices in one, a lot of the components are shared such as casing, cpu, software, battery, charging hardware, etc. It is not fair pricing to just add the total MSRP of two products just because the one device does the work of both.

You probably disagree, but 100 down to me is the sweet and fair spot for the iPhone.
EagerDragon at 2007-11-17 11:28:41 >
# 29 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Assuming this is correct, sounds like they anounced the price before sufficient research.

Many of us said that it was overpriced by 100 dollars. While it is two devices in one, a lot of the components are shared such as casing, cpu, software, battery, charging hardware, etc. It is not fair pricing to just add the total MSRP of two products just because the one device does the work of both.

That part of what they said was nonsense. The "iPod" part is just an app, while that development has to be paid for, it almost totally cuts out the incremental cost of hardware, with the exception of a fancy-pants DAC to get one like the main iPod has.

But the original presentation also factored in some intangibles, such as ease of use.
JeffDM at 2007-11-17 11:29:46 >
# 30 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Wow! Up to 145 from 118. On a 1 year target? That is amazing. I've never really gotten a straight answer though. Is this a 12 month target, renewed every time the new target is announced, or is it a target for some specific date?

End of 2008 fiscal year, apparently.
melgross at 2007-11-17 11:30:48 >
# 31 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
No doubt. I've known folks that pay close to $150 a month on cell.

Yes, they are idiots.
wnurse at 2007-11-17 11:31:46 >
# 32 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Yes, they are idiots.

The few people that I knew that had plans near that price range actually do use the services enough to justify the costs. But I don't know many like that, I think they use cheaper plans that aren't so expensive.
JeffDM at 2007-11-17 11:32:49 >
# 33 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Yes, they are idiots.

We have a plan with Sprint for three phones that comes to over $150 (without all the junk my daughter downloads each month). It's 2,000 minutes a month, and includes unlimited data.
melgross at 2007-11-17 11:33:51 >
# 34 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
We have a plan with Sprint for three phones that comes to over $150 (without all the junk my daughter downloads each month). It's 2,000 minutes a month, and includes unlimited data.

Yes but three phones is more than one isn't it?. Would you get three iphones if each phone resulted in a plan cost of $150?. I presume the conversation was about the bill for one phone or else the comparison is meaningless.. there are companies that pay thousands for phone bills (some cab companies for instance), there are some small businesses that also pay hundreds and possibly thousands.. just cause the phone bill for ONE iphone is less than their aggregate bill does not mean they run out and get an iphone.

So yes, anyone who pays 150 for a single phone bill has too much money and i can direct them where to donate it to a worthy cause (me). The only reason i would ever pay $150 for a phone plan is if somehow it is responsible for revenue that far exceeds it's cost (ie, a business tool)... i remember saying in another post that unless apple opens this iphone to outside development, it will be limited as a business tool. Businesses don't care if they can play itunes on their phones. I am finding it hard to fanthom exactly what customer demographic (except for the apple diehards who would buy shit if it came out of jobs ass) apple is aiming for. It's a weak business tool so the people who would most likely pay the exorbitant fee is disinterested, it's way more expensive than a consumer device.. who exactly are they aiming for?.. Richie rich kids?.
wnurse at 2007-11-17 11:34:45 >
# 35 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Assuming this is correct, sounds like they anounced the price before sufficient research.

Many of us said that it was overpriced by 100 dollars. While it is two devices in one, a lot of the components are shared such as casing, cpu, software, battery, charging hardware, etc. It is not fair pricing to just add the total MSRP of two products just because the one device does the work of both.

You probably disagree, but 100 down to me is the sweet and fair spot for the iPhone.

The iPhone is not two devices in one it is one device and with the new technology, software development, and component cost they have come up with a price for the product. I'm sure they took other things into consideration as well such as fair market price and gross as well as net profit margins. You statement about cost savings on the case, CPU, etc. is off base, especially since we dont know what components that the iPone will be using in the final version that is released to consumers. It also does not take into account the extra cost of the components that the iPone has that the other available products do not such as the larger (multi) touch screen which alone could add quite a bit of expense in R&D, software development, and component cost.
JCG at 2007-11-17 11:35:50 >
# 36 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Uh..do you know how the tech economy works? When the first iPod came out, it was more expensive than most iPods today, had almost no storage, no clickwheel, no color screen, no video, and was big and clunky. Today the average nano is 10x better and cheaper, too. The iPhone will follow the same path.

Yes, but with the iPod, the low cost options are shuffle, with no screen, tiny memory, no features other than playing music, or nano, which is also a tiny fraction of the memory of large ipod...

Using a model like this, the low budget iphone would just be another phone, if they released a model with no touchscreen , or only 512kb memory, or a more limited user interface... Even if it was half the price of the existing iPhone, that's still a high price for an average phone when you'll still be locked into a 2 year plan...

Apple has never adopted a policy of selling year-old tech as a "discount line", so we can't expect the current iPhone to become the discount line next year when the iPhone gets smaller, more memory, wifi, etc...
Superbass at 2007-11-17 11:36:50 >
# 37 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
If you put about $2500 into apple stock today, by fall it will pretty much pay for the iPhone. :smokey: ;)

Let me guess, you're 16 years old?
Superbass at 2007-11-17 11:37:53 >
# 38 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
The iPhone is not two devices in one it is one device and with the new technology, software development, and component cost they have come up with a price for the product. I'm sure they took other things into consideration as well such as fair market price and gross as well as net profit margins. You statement about cost savings on the case, CPU, etc. is off base, especially since we dont know what components that the iPone will be using in the final version that is released to consumers. It also does not take into account the extra cost of the components that the iPone has that the other available products do not such as the larger (multi) touch screen which alone could add quite a bit of expense in R&D, software development, and component cost.

Dude, apple never have ever charged prices for their devices based on their cost. Which planet are you from?. Apple is gonna charge 500 or 600 until customers tells jobs to shove it up his ass then they will price the device according to cost. Without even knowing what the component cost is, i can say it is way less than what apple is charging.. wanna know how i know this?.. cause apple always charge way more than is justified by their cost. Also, the cost of the device was broken down. While this is an estimate, it's not an estimate based on a blind man picking a number. Here is the link

http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/2100-1035_11-6151185.html

Notice the component price of the 499 iphone is estimated at $245.83. So 499 represents a 50% profit. Even apple research and development cannot justify a 50% markup.. motorola have research and development cost too, so do nokia, etc.. and apple already knew how to make an ipod so this research was basically apple figuring out how to make an ipod make phone calls and before you scream touch screen.. my treo has a touch screen. Apple has not reinvented the wheel.. there is no leap in technology. Apple can claim leap in UI (that is still to be determined by consumers) but the tech was already there, apple putting it together does not justify 50% margin.
wnurse at 2007-11-17 11:38:56 >
# 39 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
The iPhone is not two devices in one it is one device and with the new technology, software development, and component cost they have come up with a price for the product. I'm sure they took other things into consideration as well such as fair market price and gross as well as net profit margins. You statement about cost savings on the case, CPU, etc. is off base, especially since we dont know what components that the iPone will be using in the final version that is released to consumers. It also does not take into account the extra cost of the components that the iPone has that the other available products do not such as the larger (multi) touch screen which alone could add quite a bit of expense in R&D, software development, and component cost.

I chose my words based on how Steve presented the iPhone, he said it was 3 devices in one, and did the price comparison himself by adding the price of the iPod to the price of a phone to come up with the price he wanted us to pay. Check the presentation.

I do not think it is fair to consider the R&D on it, you always have R&D for new models of anything including a paperclip.

I did not assign a price based on the two major "devices", Steve did. I simply took what Steve did and took it to the next level, they are saving on a case, a battery, the construction of one device, etc, therefore the customers should get a piece of that and not just add the MSRP of two devices in the market for one device that does the functionality of two.

I can buy a stove with the oven built-in, or i can buy the two of them separetly. The separate solution is a hell of a lot more expensive check Sears and others. There are savings in one device with multiple functionalities. Those savings should go to the customer, it is called value for your money.

Take the video iPod, it used to be a music player, now it displays photos and also plays movies. There was some R&D on that. But Apple does not ask us to pay the MSRP of a small TV plus the MSRP of an iPod. That is value.
EagerDragon at 2007-11-17 11:39:56 >
# 40 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Dude, apple never have ever charged prices for their devices based on their cost. Which planet are you from?. Apple is gonna charge 500 or 600 until customers tells jobs to shove it up his ass then they will price the device according to cost. Without even knowing what the component cost is, i can say it is way less than what apple is charging.. wanna know how i know this?.. cause apple always charge way more than is justified by their cost. Also, the cost of the device was broken down. While this is an estimate, it's not an estimate based on a blind man picking a number. Here is the link

http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/2100-1035_11-6151185.html

Notice the component price of the 499 iphone is estimated at $245.83. So 499 represents a 50% profit. Even apple research and development cannot justify a 50% markup.. motorola have research and development cost too, so do nokia, etc.. and apple already knew how to make an ipod so this research was basically apple figuring out how to make an ipod make phone calls and before you scream touch screen.. my treo has a touch screen. Apple has not reinvented the wheel.. there is no leap in technology. Apple can claim leap in UI (that is still to be determined by consumers) but the tech was already there, apple putting it together does not justify 50% margin.
Right, because iPhones manufacture, package, ship, advertise, account, and offer phone assistance and Apple Care for themselves.

That other $255 is just PURE profit.
gregmightdothat at 2007-11-17 11:40:51 >
# 41 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Notice the component price of the 499 iphone is estimated at $245.83. So 499 represents a 50% profit. Even apple research and development cannot justify a 50% markup.. motorola have research and development cost too, so do nokia, etc.. and apple already knew how to make an ipod so this research was basically apple figuring out how to make an ipod make phone calls and before you scream touch screen.. my treo has a touch screen. Apple has not reinvented the wheel.. there is no leap in technology. Apple can claim leap in UI (that is still to be determined by consumers) but the tech was already there, apple putting it together does not justify 50% margin.

Gross margin isn't net margin. Apple's iPods have 50% gross margin too, but that doesn't mean that Apple's 10-Q shows anything close to 50% margin. It's been 10-15% for the last few years. More of Apple's net income comes from the interest and dividends on their investments than it comes from their own products.

What is the gross margin of Moto and Nokia phones? The article you linked doesn't mention that.
JeffDM at 2007-11-17 11:41:55 >
# 42 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
I do not think it is fair to consider the R&D on it, you always have R&D for new models of anything including a paperclip.

So you think all business do R&D out of the kindness of their heart and should never expect a return on investment?

Apple has a well documented policy of amortizing R&D costs over the expected unit sales for three years following introduction. A policy is generally required for both for tax and SEC purposes, Apple just chose the three years since that fits major tech device development cycles relatively well. Those costs are justifiably and necessarily considered as part of the gross and net profit margin computations for the devices.
Hiro at 2007-11-17 11:43:00 >
# 43 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
So you think all business do R&D out of the kindness of their heart and should never expect a return on investment?

Apple has a well documented policy of amortizing R&D costs over the expected unit sales for three years following introduction. A policy is generally required for both for tax and SEC purposes, Apple just chose the three years since that fits major tech device development cycles relatively well. Those costs are justifiably and necessarily considered as part of the gross and net profit margin computations for the devices.

R&D is like you said normaly recovered in a 3 to 5 year period. It is part of doing business and the only way to keep their products fresh. Selling 1 mil phones in 1 year is going to more than cover the R&D. It is build into the price.

But hey we can agree to disagree.
EagerDragon at 2007-11-17 11:43:55 >
# 44 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Right, because iPhones manufacture, package, ship, advertise, account, and offer phone assistance and Apple Care for themselves.

That other $255 is just PURE profit.

What don't you understand?.. the price i stated included MANUFACTURING.
It must cost apple a million bucks to package and ship an iphone.. good thing customers are NEVER CHARGED FOR SHIPPING AND HANDLING and as to advertising, well we all know.. you have to charge 100 bucks per product for advertising. I mean, the fact that you can get a razr for less than 100 only means that motorola doesn't advertise, otherwise, they too would need a $225 profit..

But i get what you are saying.. u saying it cost apple to manufacture, package, ship, advertise, account and offer phone assistance but it cost motorola nothing to do the same for the razr.

Apple is the only company in the world who cannot ccontrol their cost sufficiently.. and apple call themselves an advanced company.. Really, they should advertise themselves as a backwards tech company.. costs are so high, that advertising, packaging, shipping and account management exceeds manufacturing cost..
wnurse at 2007-11-17 11:44:58 >
# 45 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Yes but three phones is more than one isn't it?. Would you get three iphones if each phone resulted in a plan cost of $150?. I presume the conversation was about the bill for one phone or else the comparison is meaningless.. there are companies that pay thousands for phone bills (some cab companies for instance), there are some small businesses that also pay hundreds and possibly thousands.. just cause the phone bill for ONE iphone is less than their aggregate bill does not mean they run out and get an iphone.

So yes, anyone who pays 150 for a single phone bill has too much money and i can direct them where to donate it to a worthy cause (me). The only reason i would ever pay $150 for a phone plan is if somehow it is responsible for revenue that far exceeds it's cost (ie, a business tool)... i remember saying in another post that unless apple opens this iphone to outside development, it will be limited as a business tool. Businesses don't care if they can play itunes on their phones. I am finding it hard to fanthom exactly what customer demographic (except for the apple diehards who would buy shit if it came out of jobs ass) apple is aiming for. It's a weak business tool so the people who would most likely pay the exorbitant fee is disinterested, it's way more expensive than a consumer device.. who exactly are they aiming for?.. Richie rich kids?.

That's good that you can count. Yes, of course, it's for three, I wasn't exactly hiding that.

But the point, which I suppose I should have made more clearly, is that with more expensive plans, you get extra features that you don't get with cheaper ones.

For $100 a month I got a 2,000 minute per month plan. With that price plan, they gave me unlimited data for that one phone for $15 per month. But, then they also gave me an extra phone, with data. so, that worked out to two. Then, as a result, they gave me a discount for my daughters plan, plus the same $15 per month data plan. That added up to $150 per month (plus fees, taxes, etc.).

Of course, my daughter downloads all kinds of junk every month, so add another $50 per month for that, and it comes to $190. But that $50 worth of junk doesn't really count.

The point is that if I got a cheaper plan, I wouldn't have gotten all of the freebies, and discounts.

By the way, no one ever has too much money. If you earn it, you deserve it. Then you have the right to spend it on anything you want. No one has the right to criticize you for it. There is jealousy of course.

Companies are different. They spend much money on phones because it's cheaper than having to meet in person. They are actually saving money.
melgross at 2007-11-17 11:45:58 >
# 46 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Right, because iPhones manufacture, package, ship, advertise, account, and offer phone assistance and Apple Care for themselves.

That other $255 is just PURE profit.

Lot's of people have NO understanding of manufacturing. They are naive. They think that the part breakdown is the end of it. And the phone isn't even out yet!

They also don't understand that this phone could easily have entailed $100 million in R&D. Manufacturers try to get that money back, not only in government tax writeoffs for R&D, but upfront. They calculate a certain number of sales over a period, and then add the R&D to the prices for that period.

Usually, once the R&D is paid off, they drop the price.
melgross at 2007-11-17 11:46:57 >
# 47 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
R&D is like you said normaly recovered in a 3 to 5 year period. It is part of doing business and the only way to keep their products fresh. Selling 1 mil phones in 1 year is going to more than cover the R&D. It is build into the price.

But hey we can agree to disagree.

R&D is often recovered much more quickly that 3 years, often one. In an area where technology changes rapidly, R&D is recovered quickly. Otherwise the models are discontinued, and the R&D is never recovered fully. Each new model has it's own R&D costs associated with them, though not as much as the forst product in the line.

I've never heard of R&D costs being recovered over a 5 year period. The product is long gone by then.
melgross at 2007-11-17 11:48:05 >
# 48 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
What don't you understand?.. the price i stated included MANUFACTURING.
It must cost apple a million bucks to package and ship an iphone.. good thing customers are NEVER CHARGED FOR SHIPPING AND HANDLING and as to advertising, well we all know.. you have to charge 100 bucks per product for advertising. I mean, the fact that you can get a razr for less than 100 only means that motorola doesn't advertise, otherwise, they too would need a $225 profit..

But i get what you are saying.. u saying it cost apple to manufacture, package, ship, advertise, account and offer phone assistance but it cost motorola nothing to do the same for the razr.

Apple is the only company in the world who cannot ccontrol their cost sufficiently.. and apple call themselves an advanced company.. Really, they should advertise themselves as a backwards tech company.. costs are so high, that advertising, packaging, shipping and account management exceeds manufacturing cost..

You have this whole thing wrong.
melgross at 2007-11-17 11:49:06 >
# 49 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
That's good that you can count. Yes, of course, it's for three, I wasn't exactly hiding that.

But the point, which I suppose I should have made more clearly, is that with more expensive plans, you get extra features that you don't get with cheaper ones.

For $100 a month I got a 2,000 minute per month plan. With that price plan, they gave me unlimited data for that one phone for $15 per month. But, then they also gave me an extra phone, with data. so, that worked out to two. Then, as a result, they gave me a discount for my daughters plan, plus the same $15 per month data plan. That added up to $150 per month (plus fees, taxes, etc.).

Of course, my daughter downloads all kinds of junk every month, so add another $50 per month for that, and it comes to $190. But that $50 worth of junk doesn't really count.

The point is that if I got a cheaper plan, I wouldn't have gotten all of the freebies, and discounts.

By the way, no one ever has too much money. If you earn it, you deserve it. Then you have the right to spend it on anything you want. No one has the right to criticize you for it. There is jealousy of course.

Companies are different. They spend much money on phones because it's cheaper than having to meet in person. They are actually saving money.

Interesting, you paid more but got freebies?.. are you one of those people who still think there is such a thing as a free lunch?. Hmmm.. hate to break it to you but your 100 dollar plan included unlimited data.. i once had a plan for 46.74 per month for 1200 minutes. Actually, i could have gotten 2000 minutes for 75 bucks so either you are overpaying or the company you are with had already factored in the "freebies" you supposedly got.

also, i am with sprint.. i have unlimted data plan on my phone too.. i pay less than 70 bucks a month and my unlimited data plan was 15 bucks a month. I'm not that impressed with your freebies to be honest. I could do better.

My point is/was that $150 a month per phone for a plan is exorbitant.. i don't care what freebies the phone company gives me, i am not paying $150 for service a month (unless of course they offer to wash my clothes for me weekly, iron them, make me dinner, etc). I mean, these would have to be pretty unusual freebies for me to give them 150 bucks a month. I suspect a lot of people feel that way. I've never met anyone who said.. "i'm gonna get the most expensive plan cell company A has to offer cause i want the freebies". What does your freebies have to do with anything?
wnurse at 2007-11-17 11:50:07 >
# 50 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
You have this whole thing wrong.

I don't think so.. when apple overcharges for a product, the mac fanatics are quick to point out apple has cost as if the person making the original argument is stupid and don't understand that. Of course apple has cost.. duh!!... the point is that the cost does not justify the profit margin they seek. Every company in the world has cost. That is a constant. No company has ever developed a product for free. How the fact that apple has to pay to develop a product justifies them overcharging for it escapes me. The same stupid argument is made relative to computers. As if Dell, etc don't have manufacturing cost, advertising cost, etc. According to the apple apologists, apple has R&D, manufacturing cost, etc.. they should be allowed to charge anything for their products.

Here is what people should understand. Apple charges ridiculous prices cause the apple fanatics will pay for them. Apple will only become a responsible company when their base demands it. The more you just eat whatever shit jobs feed you, the more he takes advantage of you. Why do people think Jobs is altrustic and is looking out for us?. Mac fanatics seems to think cause apple is good, microsoft is evil that implies that apple would never try to rip their customers off. Yeah, right ok and i have a bridge in brooklyn to sell to anyone with that belief. The apple economy (everything apple) is the only economy that seems tod defy the laws of capitalism that states competition drives prices down. Apple prices their products oblivious to the fact that competition exist and then apple apologist get on forums just like this wailing about they don't undersand why 90% of the world is still buying microsoft crappy operating system and not the beautiful mac.. could it be that 90% of the world don't like being ripped of?.

BTW, how is that overpriced apple TV selling.. i'm sure it's exceeding apple modest expectation (probably some small number like 100,000). Anyway, i would be surprised if it doesn't reach 1 million before the year is out.. apple have lots of mac fanatics (more than a million). I would be curious to see quarter to quarter sales results, once the fanatics have all bought their apple TV, will sales drop dramatically or will the general public too be fooled into buying a high priced, low resolution product.

I digress.
wnurse at 2007-11-17 11:51:06 >
# 51 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
So full of hate. And misunderstanding.

If your examples held any water you might have a point, but they don't. 5G iPods have a parts cost at about 45% of the retail cost. They are estimated for a 22% gross profit margin. That means about 33% of the cost of that iPod is in R&D, manufacturing, marketing, shipping, storage, etc.

Given that those type of costs are not inconsistent across product lines it indicates an expected 12-15% gross profit margin for first release iPhones. About the smallest institutional investors will tolerate before punishing stock prices. No apologies here, just stark business reality.
Hiro at 2007-11-17 11:52:08 >
# 52 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
So full of hate. And misunderstanding.

If your examples held any water you might have a point, but they don't. 5G iPods have a parts cost at about 45% of the retail cost. They are estimated for a 22% gross profit margin. That means about 33% of the cost of that iPod is in R&D, manufacturing, marketing, shipping, storage, etc.

Given that those type of costs are not inconsistent across product lines it indicates an expected 12-15% gross profit margin for first release iPhones. About the smallest institutional investors will tolerate before punishing stock prices. No apologies here, just stark business reality.

Actually, no. I own apple products so i am part of the base that eats jobs shit.. i have just lately (a little over a year) come around to the realization that we as the base have to critize apple when it is warranted and stop just blindly following the great one. My girlfriend loves mac, so do i (i own a powermac G5, which i am can tell you i overpaid for now that i think about it). I was blinded. i could not see the truth. I was asleep, in a dream world without knowing. Now I have awaken. Every other company manages to sell products at decent prices. I'm tired of people making excuses for apple. Every device they sell is expensive.. why is that so?. How can everything they make be expensive?. How can they have higher R&D cost in every area. I would expect it in some areas but all?. Are you saying Apple can never ever price a product similiar to their competitors?.. are you saying they cannot select one product line (just one) and price it competitively?.

I drank the coolaid with relish until i sat back and realized what a dupe i was for buying my powermac G5. The most overpriced computer i have ever owned. I'm willing to buy a mac again but not at the ridiculous price i bought my powermac. Same with my ipod. Can you believe an advanced technology company cannot make a audio device where the user gets to change their own battery?. Really, think about it.. if you have to send your ipod to apple or an authorized apple dealer to change something as simple as a battery (battery technology was invented before i was born).. how advanced can this company claim to be?. Now they create apple TV with crappy resolution. I laugh everytime someone in these forums post defending the resolution of apple tv. hahahaha, a company so advanced, their product resolution sucks. You should see it demonstrated in an apple store. I even read in one forum (can't remember where) people defending the crappy tv in the apple store as apple employees improperly calibrated their monitors or some other lame excuses. Wow.. a store where apple is supposed to display their products for the world to see and they calibrated their tv's incorrectly?.. who's running the stores, Elmo Fudd?. Forest Gump?.. makes me real confident taking my computer to the genius bar when the geniuses there cannot calibrate a tv properly. Hmm.. my take on it?.. either the apple TV is crap or the geniuses that work there are dumb. Take your pick. Anyway, I love apple products but it really pains me to watch apple take advantage of their base.. I've been buying apple products for a long time, it's people like me that kept that damn company afloat now all they can think about doing everytime they create a new product is how to fleece the base.

Thanks apple.
wnurse at 2007-11-17 11:53:07 >
# 53 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Anyway, I love apple products but it really pains me to watch apple take advantage of their base.. I've been buying apple products for a long time, it's people like me that kept that damn company afloat now all they can think about doing everytime they create a new product is how to fleece the base.

Thanks apple.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. I'm sorry you feel so taken advantage of. The answer is easy: don't buy Apple products in the future.
tomkarl at 2007-11-17 11:54:05 >
# 54 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Actually, no. I own apple products so i am part of the base that eats jobs shit.. i have just lately (a little over a year) come around to the realization that we as the base have to critize apple when it is warranted and stop just blindly following the great one. My girlfriend loves mac, so do i (i own a powermac G5, which i am can tell you i overpaid for now that i think about it). I was blinded. i could not see the truth. I was asleep, in a dream world without knowing. Now I have awaken. Every other company manages to sell products at decent prices. I'm tired of people making excuses for apple. Every device they sell is expensive.. why is that so?. How can everything they make be expensive?. How can they have higher R&D cost in every area. I would expect it in some areas but all?. Are you saying Apple can never ever price a product similiar to their competitors?.. are you saying they cannot select one product line (just one) and price it competitively?.

I drank the coolaid with relish until i sat back and realized what a dupe i was for buying my powermac G5. The most overpriced computer i have ever owned. I'm willing to buy a mac again but not at the ridiculous price i bought my powermac. Same with my ipod. Can you believe an advanced technology company cannot make a audio device where the user gets to change their own battery?. Really, think about it.. if you have to send your ipod to apple or an authorized apple dealer to change something as simple as a battery (battery technology was invented before i was born).. how advanced can this company claim to be?. Now they create apple TV with crappy resolution. I laugh everytime someone in these forums post defending the resolution of apple tv. hahahaha, a company so advanced, their product resolution sucks. You should see it demonstrated in an apple store. I even read in one forum (can't remember where) people defending the crappy tv in the apple store as apple employees improperly calibrated their monitors or some other lame excuses. Wow.. a store where apple is supposed to display their products for the world to see and they calibrated their tv's incorrectly?.. who's running the stores, Elmo Fudd?. Forest Gump?.. makes me real confident taking my computer to the genius bar when the geniuses there cannot calibrate a tv properly. Hmm.. my take on it?.. either the apple TV is crap or the geniuses that work there are dumb. Take your pick.

In all seriousness then, why do you own these products? I'm sure you are aware of the less expensive MP3 players and the cheaper Dell computers? Certainly you could be saving loads by buying these products next time you are buying.

...Anyway, I love apple products...

Ah, OK. And why do you love these products? Could it be that they are better products? Is it the extra mile that Apple goes in design, engineering, that produces such superior products? Is that not worth something? Obviously a lot of people think so. Maybe you don't. The choice is yours. But yeah, there is a real hate that comes through in your posts.
JupiterOne at 2007-11-17 11:55:05 >
# 55 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Actually, no. I own apple products so i am part of the base that eats jobs shit.. i have just lately (a little over a year) come around to the realization that we as the base have to critize apple when it is warranted and stop just blindly following the great one. My girlfriend loves mac, so do i (i own a powermac G5, which i am can tell you i overpaid for now that i think about it). I was blinded. i could not see the truth. I was asleep, in a dream world without knowing. Now I have awaken. Every other company manages to sell products at decent prices. I'm tired of people making excuses for apple. Every device they sell is expensive.. why is that so?. How can everything they make be expensive?. How can they have higher R&D cost in every area. I would expect it in some areas but all?. Are you saying Apple can never ever price a product similiar to their competitors?.. are you saying they cannot select one product line (just one) and price it competitively?.

I drank the coolaid with relish until i sat back and realized what a dupe i was for buying my powermac G5. The most overpriced computer i have ever owned. I'm willing to buy a mac again but not at the ridiculous price i bought my powermac. Same with my ipod. Can you believe an advanced technology company cannot make a audio device where the user gets to change their own battery?. Really, think about it.. if you have to send your ipod to apple or an authorized apple dealer to change something as simple as a battery (battery technology was invented before i was born).. how advanced can this company claim to be?. Now they create apple TV with crappy resolution. I laugh everytime someone in these forums post defending the resolution of apple tv. hahahaha, a company so advanced, their product resolution sucks. You should see it demonstrated in an apple store. I even read in one forum (can't remember where) people defending the crappy tv in the apple store as apple employees improperly calibrated their monitors or some other lame excuses. Wow.. a store where apple is supposed to display their products for the world to see and they calibrated their tv's incorrectly?.. who's running the stores, Elmo Fudd?. Forest Gump?.. makes me real confident taking my computer to the genius bar when the geniuses there cannot calibrate a tv properly. Hmm.. my take on it?.. either the apple TV is crap or the geniuses that work there are dumb. Take your pick. Anyway, I love apple products but it really pains me to watch apple take advantage of their base.. I've been buying apple products for a long time, it's people like me that kept that damn company afloat now all they can think about doing everytime they create a new product is how to fleece the base.

Thanks apple.

You overdo your posts. Don't use the bad poetry and philosophy. These are products. You either buy them or not.

If you refuse to investigate your purchases, shame on you.
melgross at 2007-11-17 11:56:13 >
# 56 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Interesting, you paid more but got freebies?.. are you one of those people who still think there is such a thing as a free lunch?. Hmmm.. hate to break it to you but your 100 dollar plan included unlimited data.. i once had a plan for 46.74 per month for 1200 minutes. Actually, i could have gotten 2000 minutes for 75 bucks so either you are overpaying or the company you are with had already factored in the "freebies" you supposedly got.

also, i am with sprint.. i have unlimted data plan on my phone too.. i pay less than 70 bucks a month and my unlimited data plan was 15 bucks a month. I'm not that impressed with your freebies to be honest. I could do better.

My point is/was that $150 a month per phone for a plan is exorbitant.. i don't care what freebies the phone company gives me, i am not paying $150 for service a month (unless of course they offer to wash my clothes for me weekly, iron them, make me dinner, etc). I mean, these would have to be pretty unusual freebies for me to give them 150 bucks a month. I suspect a lot of people feel that way. I've never met anyone who said.. "i'm gonna get the most expensive plan cell company A has to offer cause i want the freebies". What does your freebies have to do with anything?

Since you obviously don't know anything about the plan, and didn't carefully read what I said it was, your comment is irrelevent.

If you don't want to spend the money, or can't afford to, that's fine. just say it.

Don't criticize others.
melgross at 2007-11-17 11:57:17 >
# 57 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Don't let the door hit you on the way out. I'm sorry you feel so taken advantage of. The answer is easy: don't buy Apple products in the future.

Then don't fucking complain when no one is buying apple products and keep buying microsoft crappy operating system. Just sit in the corner and enjoy your mac all by yourself. What a dumbass comment you made. What's the point of apple making products if not for more people to buy them?
wnurse at 2007-11-17 11:58:18 >
# 58 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Since you obviously don't know anything about the plan, and didn't carefully read what I said it was, your comment is irrelevent.

If you don't want to spend the money, or can't afford to, that's fine. just say it.

Don't criticize others.

Gee dude.. who said i couldn't afford to?. I think the original point of my post is lost in all these replies and counter replies. My point is that the market for people who want to afford these devices at these prices is limited. Someone will always buy some expensive products. Heck, there are cell phones made of diamonds thta cost thousands that someone bought. That is not the point. The point was that the product is not competitevly priced to attract a largue customer base. I think i was replying to someone who thought these things would sell very well. Why would i ever argue these things would not sell?. Lamborgini's sell, not many people buy them but they sell. I am 100% sure at least one person will buy the iphone (if not more).

As to critizing others, what's wrong with that?.. this is the problem our society has today.. suddenly, it's wrong to tell people when they are full of shit. I see it all the time.. people make dumbass comments and then claim that their opinion, regardless of how dumb it is, is just as valid as any other person opinion. Why is that?. Don't critize others?.,. please!!.. why, cause the others are immune from criticism?. I'm certainly not immune from criticism, you never catch me saying i shouldn't be critised but now you shouldn't?.. get of your horse!!.

Look, your opinion (which i think is wrong) is that $150 for a plan is perfectly reasonable. My opinion is that it is not. It's that simple. We should be allowed to critize each other positions. Regardless, this is all academic. We shall see when the iphone comes out who is right and who is not.
wnurse at 2007-11-17 11:59:09 >
# 59 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
You overdo your posts. Don't use the bad poetry and philosophy. These are products. You either buy them or not.

If you refuse to investigate your purchases, shame on you.

Actually, something we agree on. Shame on me indeed. Actually, my windows loving friend laughed at me. He was like.. dude, it's ok to buy a mac (interestingly, that's all he uses at work, he's a designer) but at that price?. When he heard the price i paid, he whistled. (you know, that whistle that says "wow, that's a lot of money").
He thought i should have bought a cheaper mac or try to hack the macOS (i'm lazy, that would never happen).

But you are right there.. apple didn't put a gun to my head. Shame on me indeed.

Question: Do you think there is a market for G5's on ebay?. Maybe there are mac fans nostalgic for the powerpc processor?. I have to find out.
wnurse at 2007-11-17 12:00:11 >
# 60 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
In all seriousness then, why do you own these products? I'm sure you are aware of the less expensive MP3 players and the cheaper Dell computers? Certainly you could be saving loads by buying these products next time you are buying.

Ah, OK. And why do you love these products? Could it be that they are better products? Is it the extra mile that Apple goes in design, engineering, that produces such superior products? Is that not worth something? Obviously a lot of people think so. Maybe you don't. The choice is yours. But yeah, there is a real hate that comes through in your posts.

You mistake bitterness and buyers remorse for hate. I can see how though.. bitterness coupled with buyers remose looks a lot like hate. Besides, since i made my fateful purchase, i have been on a rampage against apple elitism (you know, apple philosophy of "we'll price our products so that 90% of you wouldn't give a shit, we only want the coolaid drinking crowd"). Actually, to be honest, the ipod is competitevly priced (i guess they did give a shit about the other 90%). My only complaint with the ipod is apple stupid battery policy. So i have to give apple kudos for pricing the ipod appropriately but i will not let up on the other products. The apple TV is overpriced, macs are still overpriced and the iphone will arrive overpriced.
wnurse at 2007-11-17 12:01:13 >
# 61 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Then don't fucking complain when no one is buying apple products and keep buying microsoft crappy operating system. Just sit in the corner and enjoy your mac all by yourself. What a dumbass comment you made. What's the point of apple making products if not for more people to buy them?

I'm very certain that I've never publicly or privately complained about no one buying Apple products.

Judging from the comments here, I think it's pretty clear who is making dumbass comments.

Have a good day.
tomkarl at 2007-11-17 12:02:12 >
# 62 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Gee dude.. who said i couldn't afford to?. I think the original point of my post is lost in all these replies and counter replies. My point is that the market for people who want to afford these devices at these prices is limited. Someone will always buy some expensive products. Heck, there are cell phones made of diamonds thta cost thousands that someone bought. That is not the point. The point was that the product is not competitevly priced to attract a largue customer base. I think i was replying to someone who thought these things would sell very well. Why would i ever argue these things would not sell?. Lamborgini's sell, not many people buy them but they sell. I am 100% sure at least one person will buy the iphone (if not more).

As to critizing others, what's wrong with that?.. this is the problem our society has today.. suddenly, it's wrong to tell people when they are full of shit. I see it all the time.. people make dumbass comments and then claim that their opinion, regardless of how dumb it is, is just as valid as any other person opinion. Why is that?. Don't critize others?.,. please!!.. why, cause the others are immune from criticism?. I'm certainly not immune from criticism, you never catch me saying i shouldn't be critised but now you shouldn't?.. get of your horse!!.

Look, your opinion (which i think is wrong) is that $150 for a plan is perfectly reasonable. My opinion is that it is not. It's that simple. We should be allowed to critize each other positions. Regardless, this is all academic. We shall see when the iphone comes out who is right and who is not.

Nothing wrong with you criticizing expensive plans per se. It's when you more than hint that some people have too much money, that it becomes unreasonable.

It's all reletive. I don't know if you own a house, condo, or just rent. But, whatever you pay, there are people who are going to say that you are crazy for paying so much, even if they consider you to be rich enough, by their standards, to afford it. I don't like getting into that kind of argument. It's counterproductive.
melgross at 2007-11-17 12:03:17 >
# 63 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Question: Do you think there is a market for G5's on ebay?. Maybe there are mac fans nostalgic for the powerpc processor?. I have to find out.

If yourr price is reasonable, then you will find a ready buyer. Craigs List works well in NYC.
melgross at 2007-11-17 12:04:22 >
# 64 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
What don't you understand?.. the price i stated included MANUFACTURING.
It must cost apple a million bucks to package and ship an iphone.. good thing customers are NEVER CHARGED FOR SHIPPING AND HANDLING and as to advertising, well we all know.. you have to charge 100 bucks per product for advertising. I mean, the fact that you can get a razr for less than 100 only means that motorola doesn't advertise, otherwise, they too would need a $225 profit..

But i get what you are saying.. u saying it cost apple to manufacture, package, ship, advertise, account and offer phone assistance but it cost motorola nothing to do the same for the razr.

Apple is the only company in the world who cannot ccontrol their cost sufficiently.. and apple call themselves an advanced company.. Really, they should advertise themselves as a backwards tech company.. costs are so high, that advertising, packaging, shipping and account management exceeds manufacturing cost..

Long time reader... first time poster.

The reason I finally decided to post was that the comments made started bothering me. Let's not forget that the razr was not always only $100 or less (with rebates), but in the begining it was a very expensive phone... $500 with service agreement and $800 without. Yet people bought them and the price went down. We all now that early adopters will always pay more for a product. Consumers know this as do companies.

Just as the first iPod had "limited" features and was expensive, with many people saying "who's going to buy that?", you would of thought it will be a flop... but 100 million iPods later... they are still being bought.

Also, why don't people make such a big deal about the price differences of automobiles? You can buy a car for $10K or $90K and it's your or someone elses choice. But guess what the the cheaper car and the more expensive car both get you from point A to point B... even though both cars have four wheels, an engine, doors, windshield etc. So what makes them so different that and extra $70-80K is worth it.

So... is the iPhone expensive... maybe. Is it for everyone... no. Will people buy it.. yes. And that's all that matters.
bkerkay at 2007-11-17 12:05:21 >
# 65 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Nothing wrong with you criticizing expensive plans per se. It's when you more than hint that some people have too much money, that it becomes unreasonable.

It's all reletive. I don't know if you own a house, condo, or just rent. But, whatever you pay, there are people who are going to say that you are crazy for paying so much, even if they consider you to be rich enough, by their standards, to afford it. I don't like getting into that kind of argument. It's counterproductive.

Ok. I see where you were coming from (i suppose i should not call people willing to pay $150 for a plan idiots as i did in a prior post). I mean, people buy expensive sneakers (sneakers i can afford many times over but have i would never buy) so i guess people choose to spend their money how they see fit.. i'll give you that.. i still stand by my main argument (the phone and the plan for the phone would be too expensive for the general public).
wnurse at 2007-11-17 12:06:17 >
# 66 Re: Apple seriously considering iPhone rebate, subsidy - report
Ok. I see where you were coming from (i suppose i should not call people willing to pay $150 for a plan idiots as i did in a prior post). I mean, people buy expensive sneakers (sneakers i can afford many times over but have i would never buy) so i guess people choose to spend their money how they see fit.. i'll give you that.. i still stand by my main argument (the phone and the plan for the phone would be too expensive for the general public).

Now, that's a fair assessment.
melgross at 2007-11-17 12:07:25 >
[an error occurred while processing this directive]
[an error occurred while processing this directive]