Apples Leopard reported to be nearing final candidate stage

...development wrapping up faster than expected...no, wait! leopard delayed until october to be compatible with vista!! ...sorry, disregard bogus rumor! leopard actually nearing final candidate stage...leopard exposed to be vaporware, never intened to be released...and the rumor mill churns on and on and on...

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the count
http://thecountsworld.blogspot.com/

And such is the world of Apple rumors. Why not do something better than reading the tea leaves; maybe you could take up a hobby?

Delayed until October, coming out in a few weeks... you hear both sides, and there is no reason to trust either one. After all, what does it mean to be right 50% of the time?

"We don't think we can make a lot of money there," the exec said. He must have missed the memo, because less than three months later Apple gave birth to the sub-$600 and sub-$500 Mac minis.

He was right about one thing. There's no money in the Mini and last I heard it's the worst selling Mac.

If Leopard is still on track to come out this spring, it's getting a little late to add those "top secret" features into the product, isn't it?

They either already enabled them and you missed it or Apple isn't going to enable them in the Developer Builds because Developers may not need them.

Sebastian

If Leopard is still on track to come out this spring, it's getting a little late to add those "top secret" features into the product, isn't it?Depends on the feature(s) that are top secret.

They say they are pleased with what Parallels has done for virtualization. What if they are bundling that as one of their top secret features? Or for that matter, they could be bundling some other existing product(s) as their top secret feature(s).

I guess only time will tell.

I'm tired of hearing on these TV shows...
"The results....after the commercial"!

Apple is starting to get old with me on their announcements
of new products. Yes, I was in marketing "before I retired"
and understand the value of the lead up to a new product
and how it's important to keep your competition guessing.

BUT>>>> "all the time" starts to get old.

A build up for the new iPhone... I understand.

BUT, for a launch of O7' operating system and iLife,
please...can we know the results before the commmercial?

OLD MAC GUY

P.S. reporters are just doing their jobs, it's the manufacturer
who is making them jump thru hoops to get information.

Hello to everyone!

Is this old or am I one of the first to view this? http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/

I noticed that iCal to Core Animation presentations seem not yet finished, so is this fresh?

If this is a scoop, yes!!! Hope Im one of the first to spread this good news! =)

Is this old or am I one of the first to view this? http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/

Old...

Um - I don't think this is Apple's doing. They said pretty plainly that Leopard is coming out in the spring, and have been keeping the developers well fed with beta updates ever since that announcement.

Apple can't help the fact that the rumour mill goes crazy - but at the same time they aren't about to try and quiet it down because it generates TONS of free publicity. Genuine grass-roots publicity too - not the astroturfing that Microsoft has to resort to.

Um - I don't think this is Apple's doing. They said pretty plainly that Leopard is coming out in the spring, and have been keeping the developers well fed with beta updates ever since that announcement.

Apple can't help the fact that the rumour mill goes crazy - but at the same time they aren't about to try and quiet it down because it generates TONS of free publicity. Genuine grass-roots publicity too - not the astroturfing that Microsoft has to resort to.
Of course they won't. They'll make the line "We don't approve of the Rumor Community" and when no one is looking, laugh about Apple's latest Marketing Scheme, you know, the one where Apple made absolutely no investment and generated tons of publicity.

Come to think of it I'm laughing too. :lol:

Sebastian

bring it on!!!!

It would seem that iCal is not presented because it is probably going to take on the look and feel of the new iLife appas that may also be integrated with Leopard. I think iLife is probably THE major new thing in Leopard, although it would be nice to see some UI refinement (even though Tiger is the best looking and working OS out there).

Bootcamp we have known about. The only really shocking thing that they could include would go beyond having some kind of Parallelsesque app, but instead to have a VMWareish inclusion of Windows APIs that can run on Mac OS natively (I also think that Apples legal right to use these is the primary reason why MS has broken so many things with Vista so that Apple cannot natively use the new stuff.

Anyway, these are the things I am hoping for and would cause me to upgrade my last Rev Powerbook to a shiny new Macbook Pro. I don't use windows apps at all anymore except for one program at work. It would be nice to do all from my Mac without putting money in Mocrosofts pocketbook.

Um - I don't think this is Apple's doing. They said pretty plainly that Leopard is coming out in the spring, and have been keeping the developers well fed with beta updates ever since that announcement.

"Well fed" is up to debate. Unless all developers are so super secret that the rumor sites don't even know they've got the latest builds without all those pesky issues in them. Keep in mind that developers need to test the OS with their software. You can't just hope its going to work.

They say they are pleased with what Parallels has done for virtualization. What if they are bundling that as one of their top secret features? Or for that matter, they could be bundling some other existing product(s) as their top secret feature(s).

Ooh, bundling existing third-party software! Wow, how exciting. Certainly would be something spectacular for everyone to talk about after all the hype of the 'top-secret' features. (Which would more lead people to believe Jobs just made that up last year and they've been trying to come up with something ever since).

And Parallels won't be bundled. First, not everyone needs Windows support and won't want to pay for it. And parallels wouldn't just give their software away without taking a good hunk of cash back, and they wouldn't still be selling it now.

Let's hope the top secret features get tested and aren't released on the unsuspecting public without proper development.

Or that the secret features are just stupid separate apps that don't affect the OS to its core.

I boy, 100+ post of pontification about something most of know nothing about. Besides, I don't give a flip over when 10.5 is being released, as I'm waiting for 10.5.1 and 10.5.2 to happen before upgrading.

It would seem that iCal is not presented because it is probably going to take on the look and feel of the new iLife appas that may also be integrated with Leopard. I think iLife is probably THE major new thing in Leopard, although it would be nice to see some UI refinement (even though Tiger is the best looking and working OS out there).

Well, that's not saying much, since the competition is what? Vista? XP? Linux? Hell, as long as it didn't look like dog poo, it would take the top spot. And I hope if they tweak it, they fix the inconsistencies and issues everyone has with it, and not just change it just for change sake (and still leave all the inconsistencies and problems people have with it).

I also don't imagine iLife is the major new thing in Leopard. Apple makes a pretty penny suckering $$$ from users to upgrade every year. Why give that up and include it in OS X? Unless they change the OS pricing and charge $200+ for it (up from the projected $150 Leopard will list for). And how many people would not upgrade because they don't want to fork over the extra money for an update to iLife (Leopard at the moment is an iffy upgrade anyway, adding even more to the cost for upgrades to iLife would certainly sway myself and a bunch of others to the "wait and see" camps).

Bootcamp we have known about. The only really shocking thing that they could include would go beyond having some kind of Parallelsesque app, but instead to have a VMWareish inclusion of Windows APIs that can run on Mac OS natively (I also think that Apples legal right to use these is the primary reason why MS has broken so many things with Vista so that Apple cannot natively use the new stuff.

First, I don't think VMWare mimics the Windows API. Its an emulator/virtual machine, like Parallels. I think you're thinking of WINE (which, in general, is a hit or miss proposition, as it only works with selected apps they've tested it with).

Second, Apple always had a legal right to use WINE (they have no right to use VMWare or Parallels, without an agreement that is), so I don't see how Microsoft can suddenly go "Oh crap, let's break vista so Apple's hardware won't work with it!". Keep in mind that Vista has been available for years to developers, and apple should have no problem getting their software to work. I think the main problem is that Apple is just filled with lousy Windows programmers who just hack their way into the system to force their will on the OS, and vista doesn't like that anymore (for example, there's no way to disable the iPod service on windows, regardless of whether you have an ipod or not, unless, perhaps, you only use the computer in limited mode). And looking at iTunes for Windows interface, you'd have to think their UI group trained in Redmond (menus in the title bar?).

Third, I can't imagine MS would think it would be in their best interest to break iTunes/iPod support. Most iPod users are windows users. If the ipod won't work with vista properly, then there's a huge set of their user-base whose NOT upgrading. Add that to the other groups not upgrading, and its just another bullet in the foot.

Anyway, these are the things I am hoping for and would cause me to upgrade my last Rev Powerbook to a shiny new Macbook Pro. I don't use windows apps at all anymore except for one program at work. It would be nice to do all from my Mac without putting money in Mocrosofts pocketbook.[/QUOTE]

Delayed until October, coming out in a few weeks... you hear both sides, and there is no reason to trust either one.

No, but there's reason to trust NEITHER one :)

Delaying a finished OS X for half a year for the sake of better VIsta support is utterly absurd.

And expecting just a couple more test releases before Final Candidate ignores the history of much more frequent updates preceding completion of past versions.

Hi I'm Shaw Wu http://www.amtechresearch.com/img/profile_wu.jpg

http://www.amtechresearch.com/company_bio.asp?URLID=36§ionTitle=3&profile=36&expander=0&Sidebar=True

Nice to know all his contact information is public so people could send him inside info :lol:
Oooh... a local phone number. Maybe I can pay him a visit :lol:

Sebastian

Pray tell what commercials of the new OS have you been apprised of? Even so at this stage, what would you be concerned of?

So you as a marketer wouldn't post a line-up for the fall TV season, Monday Night Football, Movies, your daughter's impending wedding, etc., until the day of the event. I would only be concerned if it where your obituary.

Come on, you know what I am talking about... the constant tease for every Apple product is getting old !

Old Mac Guy

Oooh... a local phone number. Maybe I can pay him a visit :lol:

Sebastian

I was thinking the same! How bout all us locals go down and pay him a visit? :lol:

Well, that's not saying much, since the competition is what? Vista? XP? Linux? Hell, as long as it didn't look like dog poo, it would take the top spot.

dog poo!!!11!!!! it's brown, like a Zune!!!!11!!!!1!

The iPod service appears under services in msconfig, and can be disabled.
This is standard functionality. Unless there is something strange going on?

Oh, you can TRY to disable it, but run itunes, and it re-enables (not just turn it off and watch iTunes turn it on, but literally re-enable it after disabling it). Even more heinous, if you delete it (to maybe go "Hey, let me just remove this crap from my computer, then they can't start it!"), itunes just reinstalls it, and then turns it on.

Well, given the way the Windows interface works, I can't think of any better place to put the iTunes for Windows menus... Short of forcing iTunes to run in maximized mode all the time. Let's give Apple's Windows developers the benefit of understanding that they have to work within the limits of the OS they're coding for.

It was fine in a previous version, where it wasn't in the title bar, per se, but below it. Now it just looks stupid (then again, Apple slapping the brushed theme on a windows app just doesn't work well either, but since that stop apple from applying it in OS X, so I guess it wasn't going to stop them in Windows, either).

Then again, if you've ever used Media Player and they're appearing/disappearing menu, you know MS is completely screwed up in this as well.

I really hope iCal and Mail are integrated into 1 application. That would be REAL upgrade!

If Leopard is still on track to come out this spring, it's getting a little late to add those "top secret" features into the product, isn't it?

I'm thinking those "top secret" features have to do with the iPhone and TV. Back when the "top secret" features were mentioned they had yet to be announced so of course they couldn't talk about them.

He was right about one thing. There's no money in the Mini and last I heard it's the worst selling Mac.

Maybe if they updated them once in a while they would sell better. They are woefully outdated.

Developer Previews are designed specifically to aid developers in testing their software for the next-generation OS. It is not meant to be a technology preview. The final product may look different, have different features, and yes, may be more stable and have fewer bugs (but it will also have its own bugs in product elements left out of the previews we’ve been seeing).
Agree and as Steve so eloquently stated end of his keynote following the Leopard presentation,

"Today we are annoucing XCode 3 at the afternoon session. It is a giant leap in XCode… We want to get it into your hands so as soon as possible, so we have a (Leopard) developer preview which we are going to put it in your hands today. Because we want you to start taking advantage of all this great technology in your apps, so that when we get done with Leopard, you’ve got some awesome apps to show it off."

The reason we don't know about the top secret features by now is in the name. They are "top secret"!!

You think that maybe the special feature is an operating system that supports playing HD movies? I hope the secret is not someting as worthless as Widgets!

OK, I keep hearing this one... What exactly are you talking about? What part of HD do Tiger and Macs not support?

It's like when people say, "I wish iMacs supported HD video." Go to apple.com/trailers and watch an HD trailer. Voila, HD on your Mac.

So what specifically are you asking for?

I really hope iCal and Mail are integrated into 1 application. That would be REAL upgrade!

Ick! Do you also wish your flat-screen TV had a microwave in it?

Why jam together two unrelated things? That way lies the Microsoft way of doing things. Keep Mail and iCal separate and optimise them for the tasks they are meant to perform.

Ick! Do you also wish your flat-screen TV had a microwave in it?

Why jam together two unrelated things? That way lies the Microsoft way of doing things. Keep Mail and iCal separate and optimise them for the tasks they are meant to perform.

Microsoft isn't the only company that thinks like this. And don't knock the tv+microwave combo, clearly some people have an interest in this http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/03/stand_in_front_of_this_microwave.php

He was right about one thing. There's no money in the Mini and last I heard it's the worst selling Mac.
The Mini's not doing as bad as all that. It's #70 in sales over at Amazon, but the $999 iMac is #72. There's also AppleInsider articles I could quote that say Mini sales are solid.

Regarding profitability, I doubt Apple really cares if there's much money in it (though there may be some- the Mini isn't as low-end as we like to think, due to BYOKMAD), since, as someone else pointed out, its mainly a 'gateway drug' for Windows switchers, who "once they go Mac, won't go back", presumably. ;)

.

Microsoft isn't the only company that thinks like this. And don't knock the tv+microwave combo, clearly some people have an interest in this http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/03/stand_in_front_of_this_microwave.php

:lol: That's a microwave with a flat-screen TV on it. Totally different! ;) :lol:

I really hope iCal and Mail are integrated into 1 application. That would be REAL upgrade!

Via Services, Yes. Combined into a one monolithic app? No. That would go against design paradigms since NeXTSTEP was developed.

I wonder what products will "fill out" the Apple TV prong, and the iPhone prong.

que Ireland posting about AN Apple TV ...as opposed to THE Apple TV

You think that maybe the special feature is an operating system that supports playing HD movies? I hope the secret is not someting as worthless as Widgets!

No, it's the ability to play any Microsoft application in OS X ... ooops... I wasn't supposed to tell you ...! :embarrass

I really hope iCal and Mail are integrated into 1 application. That would be REAL upgrade!
I really hope you don't work on Apple's Mail or iCal team.

Sebastian

I'm thinking those "top secret" features have to do with the iPhone and ?TV. Back when the "top secret" features were mentioned they had yet to be announced so of course they couldn't talk about them..
Or something crazier... maybe they already showed them with Resolution Independence and ZFS... :?:
Who knows. I tend to agree that Apple is working on a greater integration between devices like the iPhone & TV & Mac. In fact, I think the AppleTV OS will be 'cross graded' to an OSX-10.5-lite come July.

Apple TV falls into the iPod prong, and the iPhone... well it's more like a Mac/iPod Hybrid as far as I'm concerned...
I can't find the original interview, an Apple guy was asked about an iTablet and he said that Apple was only working on these 4 areas (Mac/iPod/iPhone/?TV). As such, it didn't really deny Apple working on a tablet, but I found grouping of products interesting.

I can't find the original interview, an Apple guy was asked about an iTablet and he said that Apple was only working on these 4 areas (Mac/iPod/iPhone/?TV). As such, it didn't really deny Apple working on a tablet, but I found grouping of products interesting.

Well think of it this way. With the iPod you plug it in, you go to Devices, you set up your settings, you choose your content, and you sync. With the Apple TV, you connect with your Apple TV (or something like that) you go to Devices, you set up your settings, you choose your content, and you sync.

There is very little difference in that, the Apple TV is essentially "iPod TV" and I'd just place it all under iTunes anyways. Any product tied to iTunes, I consider it part of the iTunes platform.

Sebastian

If Leopard is still on track to come out this spring, it's getting a little late to add those "top secret" features into the product, isn't it?

Secret features are confined to internal builds. We may not even hear of them until the day it ships.

I totally agree that they are similar in so many ways.

That just makes it more interesting that an Apple executive said Apple was focused on 4 prongs.

btw:
In some ways, I'd like my laptop to act more like an iPod.
ie: Have a central library of music on an external disk (or server) which I can use when at home, synced selectively (like an ipod) to my laptop's smaller hard drive
4th Prong (really the Second)
Quicktime

btw:
I'd actually prefer Laptops to completely replace Desktops, except for those that need Raw Horsepower and Workstations. :D

Sebastian

I think there's way too much attention being paid to developer previews and the timing of Leopard's release. Don't look for hints from developers, because as has already been noted there is no point in giving 'secret' features to the development community - they won't stay secret.

The thing to look for/at is the calendar, and the time frame for an Apple Event. Perhaps NAB? Perhaps before or after.

We will get a Special Event to introduce Leopard at least a month before its release.
The developers will get that build the day it is introduced for final testing.
iLife will be included, as will iWork. $179, $229 for the Family Pack
All will utilize Core Animation.
The UI will be refined, but not entirely redone.
iPhone will be previewed at the event as well, including Leopard related features.
Front Row will look like Apple TV, and Apple TV will be able to BUY content direct (via your computer).
Pro Hardware will be updated with Blu-Ray
Mac Pro will have new form factor (probably at NAB)
iPhoto will include 3D transitions, including a cascade of picture postcards etc. (see U2 Window in the Sky video).

and more...

Or something crazier... maybe they already showed them with Resolution Independence and ZFS... :?:

True... but they might as well kill off the line :lol:

Widgets are not worthless.:grumble:

The TV+Microwave Combo has been officially knocked. I'd like my iCal and Mail to stay separate because in truth, I don't like iCal that much. It's a resource hog everytime I run it.:grumble:

Haha, I said last I checked. That was probably November.

Correction, Apple TV falls into the iPod prong, and the iPhone... well it's more like a Mac/iPod Hybrid as far as I'm concerned...

Sebastian

The iPhone is part of the iPod Engineering department which is a branch of Hardware Engineering and AppleTV is definitely part of Hardware Engineering and thus is more under the Mac Pro, iMac, MacBook & MacBook Pro lines.

The iPhone is an embedded hardware system solution.

The AppleTV is a nearly mac mini form factor at 7.7" x 7.7" x 1.1" with a former current Pentium M laptop chipset running it.
The Mac Mini is 6.5" x 6.5" x 2" running a Core Duo.

My guess would be that the AppleTV would fall under the Mac line.

Unless they start producing a separate family of set-top box solutions and gaming consoles it doesn't make sense to give it it's own main line.

two questions for all of you because i know that i have zero inside knowledge on the issue.
1. I'm not patient and already only a few days into spring i'm becoming very impatient. If its a guess or even some kind of a guesstimation of the release date? i just want some day on my calendar to circle.
2. in the past i remember that the OS has been discounted for folks who bought a new desktop/laptop within some period of time, 6 months or something like that... does anyone think that will happen with leopard or not?
i've been wanting a mini for so long now i just want to pull the trigger now but think that it'll only hurt my wallet later if i jump now without the OS pre-installed.

-PS

...oh and what do you all think i'm looking at for pricing if i just bought the OS, nevermind a discount or pre-installed?
1. Make June 11th your target date. That way, you can't possibly be disappointed, as that's pretty much the last day they can hope to ship it.
2. The grace period is usually four weeks, but it's only if you buy a Mac after Leopard's release date has been announced, so you'll probably want to wait for it by then anyway. It's happened in the past so I don't see why it wouldn't happen with Leopard.

The OS will probably run you 89, or $129, if you buy it alone.

Surely Apple will release Leopard in or before June...it sounds like a May release may even be possible. I'm patient enough to let them do it when they feel it's stable enough with minimal bugs. Surely too there are some features they won't tell us about til the release day to create additional hype/excitement. And it better have too...at this stage I wouldn't be rushing out to hand over AU$200. But when the RDF (reality distortion field) starts broadcasting from Cupertino, I'll probably find myself lurching to the nearest retailer in a zombied trance to pick it up.

May 1 we will have a Special Event...it will ship in the end of the month.

-=|Mgkwho

Leopard will certainly ship before June and here is why.

1. Apple has many applications waiting for Leopard support. iWork, iLife, Logic Pro 8 and likely the Final Cut Studio suite.

2. If they were to release Leopard in June it would dilute the impact of the iPhone shipping. Leopard needs at least 2 weeks space and I'd prefer a month actually.

3. Leopard has been seeded "very" slow. However the March 1st seed isn't as instable as many have written. In fact I know of people who are using it as their main OS now. If Apple has a build that is significantly (as in a month or so) beyond the ADC build then they're likely ready to announce the Top Secret features and start the Final Candidate process.

So here's my timeline.

April 2 or April 10th will have Apple announcing the Top Secrete features and immediately seeding the new Leopard build to developer for last minute changes.

April 15th will have Apple demoing the new Pro Apps. Final Cut Studio and Logic Pro 8 will be shown running on a build of Leopard.

April 29th Apple will announce they have the FC and Golden Master ready to be sent for volume production.

May 15th Leopard ships.

June 11th iPhone ships.

WWDC brings forth the iPhone SDK and certification program. Apple wants to ensure that ALL iPhone apps behave appropriately. They demo 3 new apps that will come pre-loaded and other features of the iPhone that are impressive.

That's it in a nutshell. Swami has spoken.

I love it all except May 15. They've historically release OS's on a Friday so I'd go with May 11 or 18. Preferably May 11. That's what I picked in Ireland's pole :D

Leopard will certainly ship before June and here is why.

1. Apple has many applications waiting for Leopard support. iWork, iLife, Logic Pro 8 and likely the Final Cut Studio suite.

2. If they were to release Leopard in June it would dilute the impact of the iPhone shipping. Leopard needs at least 2 weeks space and I'd prefer a month actually.

3. Leopard has been seeded "very" slow. However the March 1st seed isn't as instable as many have written. In fact I know of people who are using it as their main OS now. If Apple has a build that is significantly (as in a month or so) beyond the ADC build then they're likely ready to announce the Top Secret features and start the Final Candidate process.

So here's my timeline.

April 2 or April 10th will have Apple announcing the Top Secrete features and immediately seeding the new Leopard build to developer for last minute changes.

April 15th will have Apple demoing the new Pro Apps. Final Cut Studio and Logic Pro 8 will be shown running on a build of Leopard.

April 29th Apple will announce they have the FC and Golden Master ready to be sent for volume production.

May 15th Leopard ships.

June 11th iPhone ships.

WWDC brings forth the iPhone SDK and certification program. Apple wants to ensure that ALL iPhone apps behave appropriately. They demo 3 new apps that will come pre-loaded and other features of the iPhone that are impressive.

That's it in a nutshell. Swami has spoken.

I like your timeline. Though we could see some advancements for the AppleTV at NAB. Particularly in video production and distribution. I can see Job's saying, "You've seen the device, now here is how you can use it." Maybe we will see High Def in iTMS.

And Leopard needs to ship by mid May in order to support the WWDC. This will give the developers time to look at and assess those 'secret features' for their own projects. And then give the programmers who will actually be going to the WWDC instructions on what skills they must come back with. To announce the secret feature at the WWDC will not give the developers any time at all to decide what is important to them and what is not.

Now the iPhone on June 11, the first day of the WWDC. That would be a good way to announce that the iPhone would be open to 3rd party developers. And if they gave out the iPhone SDKs at the WWDC that would give the faithful attendees a good head start.

My theory is that they'll release it the day after I finally buy my MBP. Then I'll have to upgrade. D: Gotta love Murphey's law.