IBM announces the 970 MP=New Macs?

Originally posted by kmok1
Next January is my guess. Apple eng needs time to play with them.

They have already played with them for long enough. Although the definition of "enough" depends on the issues that arise. Remember the leaked reference to 4 CPUs in the CHUD tools some months ago? This was the proof that Apple is testing the new processors for at least six months now.

I bet there will be at least one upgrade for Powerbooks also.
Yes, but not with a G5. The 7448 is coming this October. It will have even lower power consumption per clock than the low power 970FX.

Do you think that eventually we will see G5 upgrade kits like we already see for G4? It might be nice to buy something like this a year from now...

Originally posted by BeigeUser

2. It would look bad if Apple moved the PB to 64-bit (G5) this year then moved back to 32-bit (Intel) next year and then move back to 64-bit (future Intel) again in the 2007.


Intel already has 64bit processors on the market with the designation EM64t, so I would assume that Apple will use them to not have to worry about this.

No. Merom will be the first 64 bit notebook processor. I forget what the name was for the current 64 bit processors from Intel were but they are basically most of the current Pentium 4s.

Originally posted by garyp
IBM has just announced the970 MP (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/index.html#S19433) in Japan. How soon before we see a dual dual core Power Mac 2.5?

Maybe sometime from July to January. The Powermacs were recently updated, but the update was a paltry 7% clockspeed boost, which suggests new Powermacs are imminent. Just 3 months before the G4 introduction, I believe a G3 Powermac revision was released. Apple invested very little in the last PM G5 upgrade, so there's little reason for them to wait on a more significant revision if the CPUs are ready.

Based on reports from the register Apple and IBM have been working on 970mp systems since last summer, so Apple is probably now waiting until their 970mp and motherboard stocks are high enough to meet demand. Clearly timing of this update rests upon IBM's ability to fab their new chip.

I wonder what configurations Apple will use. Will we see 970mp iMacs? Low-power 970fx Minis? Most important, will Apple finally fulfill the dream of having a desktop workstation that soundly crushes the competition? Will Apple sell twin dual-core 970mp Powermacs in the mid and high range systems? All of the hype and expectations regarding the 970mp could be deflated with the introduction of a line of single CPU Powermacs with dual cores, for a subtle boost over dual single-core CPU performance. The leaked developer tools showing systems with >2 cores are promising, but Apple has a long history of going with suboptimal implementations of new technology.

Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
Maybe sometime from July to January. The Powermacs were recently updated, but the update was a paltry 7% clockspeed boost, which suggests new Powermacs are imminent.

No it suggest that Apple had nothing to offer that was better. Further this recent IBM announcement should be of concern to many that we may be taking a step backwards with respect to single thread performance.

Don't get me wrong dual processors are a wonderful thing, they will not however do much for single thread applications which make a large part of Apple installed base. So while system performance goes up application performance could stagnate.

Just 3 months before the G4 introduction, I believe a G3 Powermac revision was released. Apple invested very little in the last PM G5 upgrade, so there's little reason for them to wait on a more significant revision if the CPUs are ready.

Based on reports from the register Apple and IBM have been working on 970mp systems since last summer, so Apple is probably now waiting until their 970mp and motherboard stocks are high enough to meet demand. Clearly timing of this update rests upon IBM's ability to fab their new chip.

Yep and Apples willingness to use the hardware. Frankly I'm not to sure Apple is willing.

I wonder what configurations Apple will use. Will we see 970mp iMacs? Low-power 970fx Minis? Most important, will Apple finally fulfill the dream of having a desktop workstation that soundly crushes the competition?

Oh come on now you have read the same material the rest of us have read, Apple will not need to worry about crushing anything with these chips as they stand today. Now there is the possibility that IBM is holding back faster clock rate devices but I don't hold out alot of hope for that.

Will Apple sell twin dual-core 970mp Powermacs in the mid and high range systems? All of the hype and expectations regarding the 970mp could be deflated with the introduction of a line of single CPU Powermacs with dual cores, for a subtle boost over dual single-core CPU performance. The leaked developer tools showing systems with >2 cores are promising, but Apple has a long history of going with suboptimal implementations of new technology.

Well we can only hope that Apple grasps where the industry is going with respect to thread processors and SMP systems. If Apple doesn't realize where the industry is headed then they are doomed. Ideally they will lead the way, but as you say they have a tendency to go suboptimal.

Dave

I see a low-power 970FX more in a new MacMini than a new powerbook !!:p

Originally posted by wizard69
Don't get me wrong dual processors are a wonderful thing, they will not however do much for single thread applications...

Think outside the box a little. Did you ever consider the fact more and more people multi-task with their computers running several applications simultaneously? Dual-cores will give a snappier and higher performance overall. There's no doubt about that. The computer is a tool and the more it can do at the same time the better.

Originally posted by DVD_Junkie
Think outside the box a little. Did you ever consider the fact more and more people multi-task with their computers running several applications simultaneously? Dual-cores will give a snappier and higher performance overall. There's no doubt about that. The computer is a tool and the more it can do at the same time the better.

Thank you.

Yes most of apple's base is single threaded... but OSX is built to multi-task! that's the greatest thing about unix. You can run 20 different programs at once without any lag. I love dual processors!

I definitely agree with that. I'd rather have 4 1.5ghz cpu's than 2 2.5ghz cpu's. I multitask like the devil when developing... kind of made me reluctant to get this powerbook... but some day I'll have duals on a laptop ;)

Originally posted by Wingnut
This is what I meant. I pretty much knew that you couldn't upgrade a G4 system with a G5. The architectures are way too different. I figured the G5's plugged into the mainboard, so if you can remove them, then maybe you can upgrade them. The only snag is that there's nothing to upgrade them to, yet. ;)

From what I remember (from old threads). You can't simply swap the G5 processor and play around with voltages & jumper settings.

Because the G5 is such a hot chip, the cooling system is custom tuned for each system. You would need to modify the cooling system when changing CPUs. It could be just the sensors or maybe you may have to replace the fans. A firmware update may be necessary. Remember that Apple had to use liquid-cooling to get faster G5s to run safely.

Also, I vaguely remember something about the bus speed and RAM speed problems after changing CPUs.

The conclusion was something like: It is technically possible to create a G5 upgrade but the engineering costs involved will make the upgrade extremely expensive and upgrade makers don't think that there is a market for it.

Originally posted by Gamblor

I suspect that the 970MP is too hot for the iMac, given the reports of heat problems with the current iMacs...

I too believe that the 970MP is too hot for the current iMac, but perhaps not for a high end 23" model.

I think the only machine the 970MP might get used is in the Powermac...
Might? What do you think Apple will use in the Power Macs until they move them to Intel processors in two years from now?

Originally posted by emig647
I'm sure the powermac will get the 970mp. I'm actually thinking January is the most probable... but I hope sooner.

Although IBM did not clarify when the new chips will be available, I believe it is a safe bet to say that this will happen some time this winter. So yes, probably MWSF 2006.

It is a drop in replacement right?
I think at least close to that.

Originally posted by DVD_Junkie
Pretty much pointless to release PMs with dual-core G5s just months before the Intel-based products hit the stores. Jobs created a problem with the Intel migration story, so unless he & Apple don't care that computer sales virtually dry up overnight while people wait for the Intel stuff, they'd better release this dual-core G5 ASAP.

Why pointless? If the Power Mac needs an update, Apple should give it. The situation is different in the Powerbook land, where introducing a G5 now is really pointless, given that the Powerbooks are still on G4 and the transition is very likely to start with them. But yes, the 970MP needs to find its way into the Power Mac presto.

We'll see what tomorrow brings.
What is tomorrow?

Originally posted by DVD_Junkie
Earnings day for Apple today. If they have anything new to announce, it'll be today otherwise several more months with nothing new on the shelves.

I don't remember Apple announcing anything on any previous earning report days. They might if they think stock prices will tank with the report but it doesn't seem likely. Updates can happen when ever then want.

Originally posted by fieldor
New macs will arrive within 3 months for sure. I just listened to conference call and someone asked about future products and Peter or tim answered "we don't discuss about future products, but we have still great PPC products coming this quarter ( corrects himself quickly) the following quarters. " It sounded like this, but are not the exact words .

Interesting quarter ahead.
Actually, you don't need to hear them telling that, one way or another, because the iBook and Mac mini are already in line for an update. And the last iBook update being from October 2004, I doubt Apple could leave them for more than three months from now without a refresh.

Originally posted by emig647
Honestly I don't know how in the hell they have gone this long without an iBook update.
I believe it has to do with the availability of components (mostly CPU) for a Powerbook update. As things are now, there is too little room left between the Powerbook and iBook. The advent of 7448 may change that. We will see.