how long till the next eMac

Expect a basic update in another 3 months, perhaps bumping the processor to +1.5Ghz and increasing the size of the hard drive. Maybe a VPU increase but don't coun't on it.

Wait for the next update...the possibility that a Freescale MPC86xx with improved architectural features will arrive in 2005 seems to be a good bet and that upgrade will see the eMac range given a new lease on life

Hi all. I'm new here. Been a long time Mac lover (aka shoulda-bought-a-Mac), but only recently have I got the money to upgrade, and naturally, having been bound to windows (98, <shudder>Me, and now 2k) for almost 6 years, i AM going to Switch. If I can. Hopefully.
Unfortunately, as I am now a student, I'm on a VERY tight budget, so an eMac is all I can afford, and only then by pushing it, and living on noodles for the nest semesta.
My point is, will Apple be killing off the eMac since there's apparently going to be an education iMac coming at the end of the month. Do I need to buy NOW to avoid having to go and getting another wintel 'computer'?
Cheers

Could also look at an iBook. Slightly more $ but a cool little laptop.

It all depends on the approach they take with the new iMac. If it is an AIO, forget it the eMac stays. Schools need cheap; they have no budget for these things. If they would release a $799 (retail) slim model (minus LCD/CRT of course) they would be golden in schools and businesses. Well, if they actively sought out sales in business that is.

Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
With no CRT/LCD I'm thinking they could go lower, maybe 699.

True, plus the EDU discount. Why, oh why wouldn't they. They must have some real sheep in the EDU and Business sales departments. They could easily stick Mac OS X in buyers faces and tout the stability and near virii virgin-ness of the platform. Alas...

There's a lot of confusion about the "education iMac." Nowhere has it been said that this will be the only iMac Apple offers to education, nor that this will be the only desktop Apple offers to education. They're simply going to offer one iMac configured especially for the education market, and specifically for large institutional orders. This is a much smarter market share move than offering a headless eMac would be. Don't think about what you'd buy for yourself. Think about what you'd buy for your district if you wanted central administration of the machines (including the ability to push out application and system updates to all machines from one place) and if you had rampant problems with students putting all kinds of pirated material and distractions such as games onto your existing desktops. If you read about the Henrico iBook experiment, for instance, neither of these problems is uncommon or easy for schools to deal with.

I imagine Apple will keep the eMac around, just as they kept the old iMac around for a good while — except that the eMac is more purpose-built for education than the CRT iMac was, and therefor more likely to stick around. They might even be able to drop it to $699 (at least, to students) without losing the screen. And, let's face it: The eMac's appeal to education is the same as with nearly every other model Apple has made for education: It's a big, tough monolith. K-12 Schools have always wanted that. They might prefer a big, tough cheap monolith now more than before, as a result of slashed budgets, but nevertheless. Dell has gained share in education precisely because of the introduction of (laid off) corporate IT people into education. They take the reins, install what they know (Dell), and get rid of what they don't (Apple). Apple's best defense against this is to aggressively push their solutions as better suited to the job, which is what they're doing. But I watched Macs how abruptly and absolutely Macs got shut out of work environments in '95, and it's definitely an uphill battle for them.

My BW G3/400 can do - albeit slowly - video editing.
No problem with an eMac.

Originally posted by Amorph
There's a lot of confusion about the "education iMac." Nowhere has it been said that this will be the only iMac Apple offers to education, nor that this will be the only desktop Apple offers to education. They're simply going to offer one iMac configured especially for the education market, and specifically for large institutional orders. This is a much smarter market share move than offering a headless eMac would be. Don't think about what you'd buy for yourself. Think about what you'd buy for your district if you wanted central administration of the machines (including the ability to push out application and system updates to all machines from one place) and if you had rampant problems with students putting all kinds of pirated material and distractions such as games onto your existing desktops. If you read about the Henrico iBook experiment, for instance, neither of these problems is uncommon or easy for schools to deal with.

I imagine Apple will keep the eMac around, just as they kept the old iMac around for a good while — except that the eMac is more purpose-built for education than the CRT iMac was, and therefor more likely to stick around. They might even be able to drop it to $699 (at least, to students) without losing the screen. And, let's face it: The eMac's appeal to education is the same as with nearly every other model Apple has made for education: It's a big, tough monolith. K-12 Schools have always wanted that. They might prefer a big, tough cheap monolith now more than before, as a result of slashed budgets, but nevertheless. Dell has gained share in education precisely because of the introduction of (laid off) corporate IT people into education. They take the reins, install what they know (Dell), and get rid of what they don't (Apple). Apple's best defense against this is to aggressively push their solutions as better suited to the job, which is what they're doing. But I watched Macs how abruptly and absolutely Macs got shut out of work environments in '95, and it's definitely an uphill battle for them.

I understand how the eMac fits in with education - easy to setup, big, tough, etc... What I don't understand is why Education/Businesses who leases most of this stuff anyway would prefer an eMac over a headless system? Granted you have to deal with plugging in a monitor, but come on. And as for price, it would definitely benefit them. Just give the option for VGA/DVI output and you are done. Tougher than an iBook in a classroom environment too. Not as strenuous to move around 100 of them at a time. How many eMacs can you move around on a cart versus a bunch of stackable slabs?

Since businesses are moving toward LCDs almost solely, Apple's product line doesn't fit well there. eMac? Ugh, no. Too heavy, bulky and a useless CRT when you have a bunch of LCDs listed underneath on the purchase order. iMac? Starting at $1300 is not a good entry point. Then again, Apple doesn't seem too concerned with business sales.

Originally posted by ibook911
You can use your favorite LCD with it, but perhaps the fact that consumers would like it, makes it something we won't see. It would hurt the imac's sales tremendously.

Could help convert PC users. So you've got your Dell or HP laying around. You put down $699 and get a headless eMac. Plug it into your old monitor. Of course, the setup looks a little ugly since the stupid Dell monitor is old and it's made of cheap black plastic, but you already have a new mac user. In a few months s/he may buy a 17-inch studio display or perhaps some alu display.

Offer an option and you could connect your headless eMac to your projector or HDTV. (Okay, this is just wishful thinking on my part.)

I work at a school, and we love the emac. This summer we added another 2 computer labs of 25 eMacs each lab, and 13 for the library. One new emac lab replaces a lab of PCs (yea! :D ). This was in addition to the other lab of 25 emacs we already had. The one important aspect is the fact that they are all-in-one and they don't have a ton of wires all over the place (whereas a tower would have a monitor cable, maybe monitor power plug, speakers). The monitor/tower thing is ugly + it takes up space. If they do anything to the eMac, they should make it faster and more compact. Oh, and a little quieter.

When I read threads like this, one thing always comes to mind: Do you think we can get to a day when Macs double the reach they currently have with consumers? What is the Mac's reach now? Do you think Apple has the ability to in the next few years, get into a lot more homes?

Of course, I want them to get into more and more businesses and schools too. All the schools I've seen in the past ten years have went 100 percent PC. It makes me cringe. However, you get more in the homes, and the businesses and schools will follow. Of coruse, the opposite applies too. You get more Macs in businesses/schools, and there will be more who want one for the home.

I wonder, do we really want everyone on a Mac though? Don't we sometimes like knowing we are some of the lucky ones? :)

I'd like to think that the eMac isn't long for the grave.

It's not ugly. Okay, I can't keep a straight face while saying that. It lacks the grace of other Apple offerings.

The monitor on it just plain stinks. Dull. Refresh rates are a bit poor. Along with Apple's crazy non-standard resolutions.

I don't think the specs on it (aside from the cpu/motherboard) are too bad compared to other 'PC World' cpus.

Sort out the monitor, drop in a G5 1.6/motherboard and you'd have a more compelling 'eMac'.

As for the monitor, I can't believe Apple can't plop in a 15 or 17 inch LCD. Or Even 12 inch!

I've kinda got used to the 12 inch iBook that I work on. It seems better than the eMac's monitor by a mile.

If they can manage an iBook for 795 then I'm sure they can LCD an eMac with LCD for less.

eMac dead or phased out or given an LCD / G5 treatment = inevitable.

Knowing Apple, there's every chance of prolonging the agony with a 1.5 G4 before the eMac's current brute marshmallow gives up the ghost.

If, in the meantime, the eMac goes on to 499 inc VAT (ie a price drop of 50 quid...) then...okay in the meantime.

I can't rule out Amorph's reasons for the eMac. But I don't think he convincingly rules out a headless iMac in schools. Plenty of schools and labs do just fine with towers/pizza/slim clients etc and the ol' Apple iBook. And who can argue that a school lab with G5s and alu LCDs just wouldn't blow you away?

I'll give Amorph another reason...the eMac's mom is so fat that a crook wouldn't steal it...nah, just drop it off at rehab'...(if it could carry it that far...)

The edu iMac bog standard client maybe signing the death warrant for the eMac. If Apple can do an edu iMac G5 client? Why not do the same for the eMac with G4 1.5? Though I suspect that a 1.5 G4 might not be too much cheaper than a G5 1.6...

At least for now, the eMac is a cheap consumer desktop. Though it is the ugly step-sister of Apple's pro/consumer lines.

We'll know more after Paris...

Lemon Bon Bon

I'm in the same boat. About 8 months ago I splashed out a grand on a PC. It's served me well but I wish I'd bought a Mac. Now I want a Mac desperately but can't afford one! No-one is even selling second hand eMacs on eBay. I keep looking at the Apple Refurbished store but it's all iPods and Powerbooks these days which are too expensive for me.

Yeah, they should keep on with the eMac. Who says that schools never use discs?

Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
I just don't see Apple getting into more businesses, at least not the ones outside of the realm of video editing, publishing, graphics, and others. I don't think Apple will ever get into selling computers in large quantities to, say, a bank or corporate offices. Cheap Dells for them.

I wouldn't mind if Apple had something like 10% marketshare. That's a big chunk of the pie in such a segmented market. We'd still be "some of the lucky ones" :)

IMHO, in the corporate world it's not the hardware or software that drives the cost, it's support contracts and corporate help desks (and maybe custom corporate software). My company recently went all Windows - except for special cases - in part because it's too much hassle to provide support for two platforms - nevermind the fact that Mac folks statistically require FAR less support than Windows users. Corporate IT knows they HAVE to have Windows support people, because there's no way Windows will be pushed out, so you get rid of the other platform.

RE: The eMac.
LCDs still cost more than CRTs. And CRTs have some benefits for a lab environment - heavier, tougher. Performance is also not a big driver - Word processing, spreadsheets, basic programming, even light video and photo editing can all be done with even five year old hardware. Other than using current components to keep cost down, and mildly maintaining a hint of performance parity, there is no compelling reason for Apple to push the eMac up the performance curve.

- Jasen.

Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
It's called the progress curve of technology.

(Unless you're talking about G4s and lame graphic card choices offered by our favourite computing vendor...)
.
.
.
How many years have those 1 gig G4s been knocking around now?

Lemon Bon Bon

2-1/2 years. Since January 2002 - Quicksilvers.

I've no problem with the eMac as a product idea.

But it looks ugly. It lacks the graceof the original iMac.

A design bump. Lose the dodgy CRT. At least a trinitron and design tweak the lard-ass, marshmallow case.

I'd rather they bump the price by a hundred for each eMac and stick a 17 inch LCD in their.

PC Towers have 17 inch LCDs with them for 795.

I'd rather Apple did the same and provided an eMac desktop worthy of the name.

HOPEFULLY, the low end edu iMac G5 will replace the ugly sorry son of a bitch.

Yeah, keep it for the 495 Macs are too expensive crowd.

I'd like to see Apple keep trimming the price of it until they get to 395.

About what's worth now.

Lemon Bon Bon

There's no way that the eMac will get a major processor upgrade (such as a G5) until at least next spring. Considering the lack of current inventory, a minor speed bump might occur very soon.

Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
I've no problem with the eMac as a product idea.

But it looks ugly. It lacks the grace of the original iMac.

They could always give the eMac the "Dalmation" or "Flower Power" treatment, that breathed new life into the original iMac sales... :rolleyes:

The eMac is for education first and foremost. It is built according to what that market demands.

Getting rid of the eMac's CRT would be horrible for the education market. Do you really think a schoolful of rowdy, sticky-fingered K-8 children would do well with LCD's? They're too delicate. An eMac needs to be able to survive a fist banging on the screen. Hell, I even remember when they installed an LCD monitor on one of the PC's in my old high school classrooms. It lasted about three months.

Amorph said the rest. Refreshing to see someone here talking about the reality of the market, instead of Mac-geek talk about how the eMac "needs" an LCD, or no monitor, or better styling, or HDTV output (yeah, because elementary schools are simply crawling with HDTV's).

The eMac form factor is just about perfect for K-12 schools. If a "headless" eMac is released, it had better be a pizza box, with matching CRT's at least offered as an option.

Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
You're really lost if you think the eMac is for education first and foremost. It's for people who want CHEAP first and foremost. Schools want cheap. Users on a budget want cheap. That's the target market.

No.

The eMac is designed for education first and foremost. It's true that education wants cheap, and so the eMac accommodates that. But that's not all they want.

If Apple wanted to make the eMac cheaper, there are plenty of ways they could do so, right now: Pull out the speakers and the (unusually powerful) amplifier. Chintz on the case instead of using heavy polycarbonate. Use commodity parts to a much greater degree (e.g., cases). Etc. The big, smooth, rugged monolith is absolutely targeted at education: Just look at every single one of the other machines that Apple has targeted at education, and the lineage is obvious.

The eMac was originally available exclusively to education customers, and it was only offered to consumers in response to demand. If that doesn't single the eMac out as first and foremost an educational machine, I'm not sure what would.

Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
You're really lost if you think the eMac is for education first and foremost. It's for people who want CHEAP first and foremost. Schools want cheap. Users on a budget want cheap. That's the target market.

Education is its target market. The "e" stands for "education", not "economy". Remember, it was exclusively available to the education market at launch. The fact that it became the economy Mac was more due to the combination of the iMac G4 being too expensive, and at one point, too hard to find, than it is to Apple desiring to make it their economy line.

I'm hoping that Apple will correct this with the iMac G5 and be able to deliver one for $899 or so. I think Apple forgot what the iMac is for with the iMac G4. The iMac should deliver on the promise of the original Macintosh- simplicity, affordability, ease of use, and decent performance. The iMac should be the economy Mac, and the eMac should be built for schools. I'm hoping that the rumors of an optical drive-less model are for an iMac targeted to colleges, and the eMac will remain their main K-12 offering.

Originally posted by Amorph

The eMac was originally available exclusively to education customers, and it was only offered to consumers in response to demand. If that doesn't single the eMac out as first and foremost an educational machine, I'm not sure what would.

Precisely because Apple realized consumers outside of the "education" market would be willing to purchase an eMac shows that first and foremost it's an entry level Macintosh TODAY (not when it was first introduced). Apple was smart enough to realize that not only schools want cheap macs. So while the name of the machine reflects it was intended for the education market, it would be most appropriate to point out the target market has since then expanded to include budget conscious consumers.

And I think that will be reflected in the future. If indeed the iMac line will include an "education" model, then the eMac will exist only to serve those consumers who are looking for the cheapest mac available and who don't care to have an LCD.

If the Powerbook gets either a speed bump or G5 (unlikey) then all those extra 1.5 GHz G4's could mean an eMac speed bump very soon.

i think a considerable speed bump or price drop are unlikely at this point. they just improved the emacs this summer (couple months ago at least... i can't exactly remember), and its still a pretty good deal right now. superdrive, 1.25 ghz processor, 256 mb ram and radeon 9200 for $999? thats a pretty sweet deal, and its even better if you get the education discount. my high school switched from old-school slot-load imacs like i have at home to 800 mhz emacs, and they're very nice. they're fast, they're durable, and they're a great deal. keep in mind that the 2nd generation imacs (sunflower) had a 1.25 ghz processor in it, same as the emac. before the imac g5 update, there was really no distinguishing factor between the emac and imac, and i think they're going to keep it that way for a while. they may bring it up to 1.5 ghz like in the powerbooks, but thats probably it. this week has a lot of potential, so i can't wait to see what they release.

and just for the record, even though this isn't technically the place for it, the sunflower imac is really the 3rd generation, because there was the original tray-loading imac, then the slot-load imac, then the g4, and now the g5 imac. just thought i'd point that out. just a technicality

So when do you guys think any updates will happen

This week,

This month,

Next 3-4 months,

Never?

Matsu the quality of those flatscreens you buy with garbage Dells and Gateways is well, garbage. Do you want Apple to include a garbage LCD in a flat eMac?