How long must we pamper Moqtada Sadr?

Originally posted by Common Man
This guy is gaining support and importance because we are dancing around his testicles. The more we let him prolong this standoff, the more power he gets. He knows that we are holding back and that we will not go get him. The way I see it, when he decided to use a shrine as a bunker, he desicrated that shrine. He and he alone is now responsible for its fate. I know that noone here will agree with me, but I think that it is time to take the gloves off. We should bomb the shrine very, very hard and hopefully kill Moqtada Sadr in the process. This will send a strong message to all that we have had enough game playing. We must tuffen up to break the back of the terrorist insurgency.

Well...I agree. The lesson we should have learned is that overwhelming force has to be used. We made that mistake in Fallujah. We should have crushed them.

Links that we are pampering him? He is still alive. That says it all.

He made the shrine a militarty target when he set up his milita HQ inside of it.

Let me tell you how this will unfold. Moqtada Sadr will continue to arm his followers with pop guns and send them out to be killed by American marines. Meanwhile he will sit on his fat butt in the shrine. When he feels that his little game is about to be brought to an end, he will surrender and save his butt just like SH did. He will then be patronized and and given some "role in the process" of rebuilding Iraq. He will be a pain in the butt for many years, but will have succeded in increasing his power base.

If the US bombs that "shrine", it just might ignite a general uprising among the Shiites. Sistiani might get very pissed of.

Originally posted by addabox
Or, we could stop "pampering" muslims in general and just nuke the whole region and be done with it.

See, but there's this little thing called consequences. Massive displays of force might provide sexual gratification for a certain strata of society, but unless you pick your battles and forces you just damage your own effort.

For instance, the initial invasion of Iraq and its "shock and awe" sure stiffened a lot of right wing manhood, but because it was the wrong war in the wrong place for the wrong reasons it has left us in this highly untenable position.

What Addabox said

Dude, so me and my boys went out in my pickup this weekend and cleared house on the cuban gang that's been threatenin' my girls. It was a breeze, yo, with all the fire power big daddy can get us. At the same time though, our territory musta shrunk because all we get now from the dames in the ghetto is rotten fruit and a few middle fingers. seems clearin' house doesn't mean what we thought it meant, and now my pool of chicas is smaller...

Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Go ahead. Bomb the mosque. It's only where Muslims worship.

Yeah, and its hardly even a mosque... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meshed_Ali

Yeah, it means hide and shoot at Americans. Sadr himself desicrated the place. Get off the "we must respect this holy place crap". if I go to my Church and start shooting out the windows at cops, they will come in and get me. The Church community will be mad at me, not them. Sadr is a power hungry manipulative man and forunately for him there are enough "useful idiot" leftists to let him get away with his plan.

I would expect to be extracted and arrested and the same should be done to him.

Read these. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3564706.stm)

Incidentally, if you can't see how the American-led invasion of Sadr's country and the institution of an army for Shia nationalists are sort of, you know, linked, it's time you learned a thing or two about responsibility.

Seems to me that the American and Iraqi soldiers are showing alot more respect towards this shrine than those who are using it as a military base. I don't think the people in that shrine give a crap about Iraq or Islam. They care about there own hunger for power. Do I want the shrine destroyed? Of course not. I know that it is precious to many people. I do , however, want Sadr and his goons pulled out of there . You see. they want the shrine destroyed . Damage to that shrine will increase their power by making their case that this is a "war against Islam".

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/08/15/iraq.main/index.html

Originally posted by Common Man
We should bomb the shrine very, very hard and hopefully kill Moqtada Sadr in the process. This will send a strong message to all that we have had enough game playing. We must tuffen up to break the back of the terrorist insurgency.

Yes, it would surely send the right message to the iraqis to kill Muqtada Al Sadr. It would clearly show them that nothing has changed since Saddam Hussein has killed the father of Muqtada Al Sadr in the last Shia-riot against Hussein.

The best option for the US-occupation-force to solve this crisis is to offer Al Sadr complete amnesty and to allow him to found a party and to run for office in the elections of 2005 in exchange for complete disarmament and dissolvement of his militia.

Nightcrawler

Originally posted by Common Man
You see. they want the shrine destroyed . Damage to that shrine will increase their power by making their case that this is a "war against Islam".

Congratulations. You've now arrived at the obvious conclusion that everyone else got immediately. Well not everyone, someone, I can't remember who, was suggesting that:

We should bomb the shrine very, very hard

Originally posted by Nightcrawler
The best option for the US-occupation-force to solve this crisis is to offer Al Sadr complete amnesty and to allow him to found a party and to run for office in the elections of 2005 in exchange for complete disarmament and dissolvement of his militia. I'm with you there. It's frustrating to see soldiers get killed in this in-and-out, cat-and-mouse game, negotiating one minute, advancing the next, withdrawing the third. But we've: 1. avoided a bloodbath, 2. contained the uprising, 3. thanks to 1 and 2, given time for most Shiites to get tired of al-Sadr, and 4. left open the possiblity to bring al-Sadr into the political process when 3 sinks in. Neither bombing the sh1t out of them nor letting them run amok seems like a better idea.

The "peace process' is failing. Iraqi forces shold storm the shrine and put an end to this.

Originally posted by Harald
Make your damn mind up.

Would the effects of trashing the shrine be worse or better then not trashing it?

Couldn't we just trash it a little bit? Just for the home crowd, without the iraqis noticing?

I vote for moderat trashing!

(At least just to draw attention away from Israels decision to build a 1000 new living units in illegal West Bank settlements.)

Originally posted by New
Couldn't we just trash it a little bit? Just for the home crowd, without the iraqis noticing?
:lol:

Come on segovius. This is a war against Islam as much as all Muslims are terrorists and OBL exemplifies Islam. Please.

For the moment. He was afraid that the Iraqi forces were going to kick his butt.

Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Or perhaps he has a larger more ominous goal, like taking over Texas?

:lol:

Originally posted by Common Man
Looks like this might come to a head soon.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3580728.stm

Keep your Kleenex handy Communist Man!

Well, Moggy and his mob are still in control of the Mosque, in direct contrast to the Iraqi/US statement 2 days ago that the police had entered the mosque and arrested some fighters.

This is why all journalists were banned from the area. So no one could report that the PR was all lies? Oh Look, Pakistan has arrested 6 more Al-Q terrorists. Is Bush about to hold a convention or what?

Originally posted by powermacG6
I guess this hasn't been broadcast in the USA news, or you're all too busy fighting over SBV4T, but something that might be seen as moderately good has happened.

Yep, the Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani came home, clicked his fingers, and both the US and Sadr retreated.

This agreement did not cure the problem. It dispersed it to safe houses where it can retool and come back at us.

Originally posted by Common Man
This agreement did not cure the problem. It dispersed it to safe houses where it can retool and come back at us.

And your solution was to level the mosque, kill a couple of thousand more iraqi's, and have a few million muslims take up arms against the US within a couple of days.

[Even your beloved shrub isn't that dumb]

Good thinking Batman

Ive always wonderered what the deal was with the 72 virgins. I'd sure love that, but what the hell am I going to do in the second week?

Originally posted by New
I'm getting quite tired of your prejudicial, quasi racist, islam bashing, Aurora. Get over it, go read the paper and read about who they blow up next.

Originally posted by New
Your level of hatered makes you a lousy christian. I dont practice thank you, but you have to give Jesus credit he was saying 2 thousand years ago things these fantaics dont get today. love your neighbor as yourself. imagine that, not jihad and lets go plant a bomb killing who ever walks by. By pampering Sadr they are going to have even more problems. watch and see.

However you want to spin things, the bottom line is here is another killer running around and the current govt is cutting deals with this Sadr, same one holding a mosque hostage. come on people this is a indication on how screwed up things are in Iraq. yes they are pampering this guy because they know that these are religious fanatics who will do anything under this guise. jihad and yadda yadda yadda. Now inviting him into the political process? Democracy? i dont see it.

Originally posted by New
make a point or shut up. The point you miss is this guy is wanted for murder is he not?

Originally posted by Aurora
I dont practice thank you, but you have to give Jesus credit he was saying 2 thousand years ago things these fantaics dont get today. love your neighbor as yourself. imagine that, not jihad and lets go plant a bomb killing who ever walks by. By pampering Sadr they are going to have even more problems. watch and see.

Jesus did not exist as the scriptures remember him. The whole Jesus story is a rehash of the religions that were promintent of the time circa 2000 years ago. It doesn't take much thought to realise that love thy neighbour as yourself is a good principle that the whole world would benefit to take notice of.

Instead we have the Christian fundamentalists at war with the Islamic fundamentalists and the dumb public following along with it because they dont have the intelligence to see the real picture. The end of mankind may well be to the stupidity of the ignorant masses.

I know several Christain fundies. Lets not pretend that the fundies dont have preached to them every week in Church that Islam is the decedit of Satan. Lets not pretend that the fundies only support Bush because he proclaims a belief in Jesus. Ask them a question - Name 5 reasons to support Bush? Most don't have the slightest idea - They support shrub because he believes in Jesus and their perverted fundie belief means that stamping out Islam is the major goal of their life. Why? because it is the most potent threat to their false doctrine, wether they understand it or are just sheep.

Lets not believe that Christian fundies are any less vindictive, warmongering or uncompassionate than Islamic fundies. They are not, they just have different methods and politally correct methods. They are just as stupid, and dangerous as Islamic fundies, and they will wage war amongst Islam until their small minds are convinced that they have won the battle against Islam. Its the same type of group-think that causes suicide bombers and terrorists to attack us, and us to attack them. They're all decieved by the doctrine that proclaims them to be the righteous, while all other have been led by Satan to attack them.

Peace and prosperity in the world will never be achieved while there is any religion in the world. The quicker we realise that we are all an insignificant life existing on an insignificant rock orbiting an insignificant star in an insignifacant universe, the quicker we will realise that we all need to work together to make things better for everyone. Some people dont accept that because they are so arrogant that they belive they are better, more deserving, more righteous than the next man. Christians and Muslims.

Thats the lie. Its the same lie thet has been propagated for thousands of years, and sadly will be the same lie until mankind has driven himself into destruction.

Why are we pampering this lie?