N.J. Governor Resigns, Admits He Is Gay

50/50.

Bad that he is including his sexuality as a vulnerability to being a governer. Good that he is taking a moral stand and resigning in a profession that doesn't have any (moral stands), for the most part. Bad that his private life is affecting his professional life so.

I understand, apart from any moral angle of an extra-marital affair, there is a blackmail angle. Going public with being gay removes this problem; resigning probably removes McGreevey from a difficult fight regarding his legitmacy as a governor (you can be sure it would be made an issue, however obliquely).

Hmmm...correction: apparently he's anticipating a sexual harrassment suit from an aide who didn't have the proper qualifications to begin with. Resigning takes him out of the light of some pretty harsh questions.

I don't care if he's gay, but cheating is not cool. He did the right thing by resigning.

Originally posted by bunge
Resigning because you cheated is pretty stupid. It encourages people to associate the two actions (having sex and holding office) when there is absolutely no connection. Having an affair doesn't impede your ability to do your job in any way.

I agree whole heartedly. One is doing a service for the public the other is your private life which should be yours to do with as you please ( right or wrong ). As long as it doesn't affect your job there's absolutely no connection.

Or is he saying you can't be gay and a politician in America

There are a few Congress(wo)men who are gay. Barney Franks is the most well known. There is a some guy from Arizona who is gay as well and is a Republican. And there is some chick from somewhere who is a lesbian and in Congress. The House has smaller constituencies and in many cases one party has a very large majority in a particular congressional district. Obviously it is much easier to get elected if you represent a secular and/or liberal constituency. I can't imagine anyone who is gay getting elected to the House from a Bible Belt state.

I won't swear to it but if you are talking about a statewide office, AFAIK, no Senator, Governor, or Presidential candidate has ever been openly gay and been elected thereafter. Some people say President James Buchanon was gay since he was the only president who was single but who knows if that is true.

It's not just about being gay though, we can hardly get blacks or hispanics or asians or women elected to the Senate either. If you're a Senator, chances are still very good that you are white, male, over 50, Christian, Hetero, and Married/Widowed. Women are on the rise especially over the last decade. They're now up to 14% or so in both houses of Congress. Although one of those 14 female Senators, Lisa Murkowski, was appointed by the governor of AK who happens to be her father, and two of the others gained fame because of their husbands, Elizabeth Dole and Hillary Clinton.

If you exclude the current crop there were only 19 other female Senators in the 200 plus years beforehand and many were temporary appointments. Only six of those served full six year terms.

AFAIK we have zero black senators at present and we've had a grand total of two or three over 100+ years since reconstruction. We have zero hispanic senators at present as well and New Mexico is the only state to elect a Latino to the Senate AFAIK.

Ben Nighthorse Campbell is Native-American and the two Hawaiian Senators have tended to be Hawai'ian natives. But that's about it.

Fourteen women and three minorities. That puts the Senate at 83% white male although white males probably are about 35% of the population.

Seems like this guy is in a lot of personal turmoil right now. Maybe being governor is not productive for him and the state right now?

Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
Although one of those 14 female Senators, Lisa Murkowski, was appointed by the governor of AK who happens to be her father

...and also her first cousin.

Originally posted by applenut
in other words he is a typical new jerseyan

And you're a typical New Yorker.

Seems like this guy is in a lot of personal turmoil right now. Maybe being governor is not productive for him and the state right now

I...agree? Hehe that was my favorite part of this thread! :wow:

Originally posted by bunge
If that were the case, why didn't he say so? Unfortunately he didn't, and that means you need to think of a better excuse.

Thanks for your important contribution to the thread troll. Now run back under your bridge.

Originally posted by bunge
Sorry but the guy should say so if your assertion is correct. He didn't, so he's made the issue bigger than what you suggest.

Yes you got me bunge. Now run back under the bridge. The sun it up.

I thought it was funny watching his wife while this guy was making his statement. i didnt know if shw was in shock,startled or was going to beat the crap out of her husband off camera. the look on her face was amazing.

I'd like to give McGreevy credit. I would like to...really. He's been a decent governor (though I disagree with his tax polices). He's been a publicly visible Governor, pushing NJ businesses and tourism. Overall...not bad.

But I can't give him credit. This is a premptive political strike. McGreevy was having an affair with a man that was on the state payroll. This man threatended to sue McGreevy. This would have cripled his ability to govern. If McGreevy wanted to really do the right thing, he would have resigned effective at the end of August. Then, a special election would be called (which, from what the pundits are saying, the Dems would probably win anyway).

But McGreevy doesn't want that. He's resigning effective November 15th, just in time not to have a special election. It reeks of politics. And, by coming out and admitting such a big thing, McGreevy paints himself well in the court of public opinion, should a suit arise.

I simply can't give the NJ Democratic party that much credit either. John Corzine literally bought his Senate seat. He barely won against a challenger that couldn't begin to match his dollar figure. Then, when Toricelli resigned, the Democrats got a court of law to go along with changing the election laws to allow Lautenberg to run and win. This was patently illegal (the language on replacing candidates was EXPLICIT and allowed for NO exceptions), but it happened anyway.

Originally posted by Scott
something about bunge being a troll and needing to do something under a bridge

troll: v. trolled, trolling, trolls
v. tr.
To fish for by trailing a baited line from behind a slowly moving boat.

Just so you know.

The ridiculous thing about this is that he's announcing today, but he has made his resignation effective Nov 15 which assures that a Democrat will remain Governor since Senate President Richard Codey will serve out the rest of his term.

However, if he had made his resignation effective immediately, Senator Codey would take over as Governor, however only until a Special Election at the same time as the Presidential Election. At least then the voters would have the opportunity to chose their Governor - as promised by the state constitution.

It smacks of politics.

Originally posted by midwinter
troll: v. trolled, trolling, trolls
v. tr.
To fish for by trailing a baited line from behind a slowly moving boat.

Just so you know.

Just so I know what?

The above one works along with the noun. Dual meaning. Very clever.

troll, n.2

a. In Scandinavian mythology, One of a race of supernatural beings formerly conceived as giants, now, in Denmark and Sweden, as dwarfs or imps, supposed to inhabit caves or subterranean dwellings

Originally posted by Scott
Just so I know what?

Just so you know that the term "troll" derives from "trolling," as in someone who comes into a thread and "trolls" for "fish" to bite at his "bait." That's all. It has nothing to do with mythology.

It's a fishing metaphor.

The above one works along with the noun. Dual meaning. Very clever.

The fact that it works as a noun is either a pure construction of online discourse or is a reference to "troll" as a lure, which is what it means in noun form.

The image you're (and many, many, MANY others) relying on simply makes no sense. Why would a mythical beast come out from under a bridge and attempt to engage people in senseless argument? It makes much more sense that someone is trying to bait people into biting at arguments.

That's all.

Oh. I forgot. Bush sucks! Kerry rules! ;)

Originally posted by New
No it's Troll, you troll.

In Wacky Norway perhaps ;)

Originally posted by Harald
No, that's trolled.

:)

As in, "How ironic; the only person in here that actually trolled is a 'PhD' who doesn't know the etymological root of the verb, 'to troll.'"

...who got corrected by another Ph.D.

Originally posted by midwinter
Just so you know that the term "troll" derives from "trolling," as in someone who comes into a thread and "trolls" for "fish" to bite at his "bait." That's all. It has nothing to do with mythology.

It's a fishing metaphor.



The fact that it works as a noun is either a pure construction of online discourse or is a reference to "troll" as a lure, which is what it means in noun form.

The image you're (and many, many, MANY others) relying on simply makes no sense. Why would a mythical beast come out from under a bridge and attempt to engage people in senseless argument? It makes much more sense that someone is trying to bait people into biting at arguments.

That's all.

Oh. I forgot. Bush sucks! Kerry rules! ;)

No doubt it is all well defind in OED right? They've expanded to include internet slang and you are an expert on it all?

Originally posted by Scott
No doubt it is all well defind in OED right? They've expanded to include internet slang and you are an expert on it all?

I'll check my OED, but I don't think my edition includes the internet slang. You do know, of course, that the OED is an historical dictionary and not one where you'd go for definitions? That is, it records when words enter the language by providing the earliest known instance of their usage.

Anyway. Here's what the online OED at my library says:

Troll 1. n.

1. The act of trolling; a going or moving round; routine or repetition.
_
__1705 ROWE Biter I. i, Make up the Troll of the Sentence, as merrily conceited Persons are us'd to do. 1790 BURKE Fr. Rev. 274 The troll of their categorical table might have informed them that there was something else..besides substance and quantity.
_

____2. A song the parts of which are sung in succession; a round, a catch.
_
__1820 W. IRVING Sketch Bk., Little Britain (1865) 306 The famous old drinking trowl from Gammer Gurton's Needle. 1856 KANE Arct. Expl. I. xix. 233 It is sad..to miss..the joyous troll of his ballads.
_

____3. A little wheel; spec. an angler's reel or winch on a fishing-rod. Obs.
__[Cf. OF. trueil (Godef. Compl.), F. treuil windlass, winch.]
_
__1570 LEVINS Manip. 57/15 A Trowell, rotula. 1662 VENABLES Experienced Angler iv. 47 With your troul wind up your line till you think you have it almost streight. 1670-1 Act 22 & 23 Chas. II, c. 25 6 If any person..shall..use any..Nett..Angle, Haire Noose, Troll or Speare.
_

____4. Angling.____a. The method of trolling in fishing for pike, etc.: see TROLL v. 13.
_
__1681 J. CHETHAM Angler's Vade-m. xli. 7 (1689) 312 It's not so good for the Trowl as snap. 1688 R. HOLME Armoury II. 324/2 Trowl, a fishing for a Pike: and this is by walking, and the line to run on a winch, that it may be winded up, or let out at pleasure. 1794 Sporting Mag. III. 247 Both at trowl and snap, cut away one of the fins. 1847 T. BROWN Mod. Farriery 902 At both troll and snap some persons have two or more swivels to their line.
_

____b. A lure used in trolling, as a trolling-spoon (see TROLLING vbl. n. 4).
_
__1869 Cornh. Mag. Apr. 419 The many artificial trolls which have been..invented for salmon and trout-angling.
_

____5. A kind of low cart: = TROLLEY n. 1. local.
_
__1663 [implied in trollful: see below]. 1810 Hull Improv. Act 56 Any cart waggon sledge troll dray. 1870 Murray's Handbk. E. Counties 224/2 They [the rows of Yarmouth] are traversed by..a sort of horse-wheelbarrow, called trolls or trolly-carts. 1882 BUCKLAND Notes & Jottings 192 When the trawlers [at Yarmouth] come in laden with fish they transfer them to very large boats..and thence into trolls, which are backed into the water.
_

____6. attrib. and Comb.: troll-line = trawl-line (see TRAWL n. 4); troll-plate (see quot.).
_
__ 1888 EARLL in Goode Amer. Fishes 195 The smack fishermen of Charleston catch a few on *troll-lines during..spring and early summer.
1877 KNIGHT Dict. Mech., *Troll-plate (Machinery), a rotating disk employed to effect the simultaneous convergence or divergence of a number of objects; such as screw-dies in a stock, or the jaws of a universal chuck.

_

____Hence trollful, as much as fills a troll (sense 5).
_
__1663 P. HENRY Diaries & Lett. (1882) 143 August 1. Hay carry'd in out of ye great meadow, three trolefuls.

Troll 2. n.

a. In Scandinavian mythology, One of a race of supernatural beings formerly conceived as giants, now, in Denmark and Sweden, as dwarfs or imps, supposed to inhabit caves or subterranean dwellings: see quotations, and cf. TROW n.4
_
__1616 Dittay Sheriff Court Shetland 2 Oct. (Jam. s.v. Trow), The said Catherine for airt and pairt of witchcraft and sorcerie, in hanting and seeing the Trollis ryse out of the kyrk yeard of Hildiswick.
_

_
__1851 BORROW Lavengro xxx. (1911) 188 A laidly Trold has dragged it there. 1856 EMERSON Eng. Traits, Ability Wks. (Bohn) II. 34 The Scandinavian fancied himself surrounded by Trollsa kind of goblin men, with vast power of work and skilful production. 1865 BARING-GOULD Werewolves iv. 40 In the Hrolfs Saga Kraka, we meet with a troll in a boar's shape, to whom divine honours are paid. 1865 WHITTIER Tent on Beach, Kallundborg Church 14 But the sly Dwarf said, No work is wrought By Trolls of the Hills, O man, for naught. 1867 BRANDE & COX Dict. Sc., etc. s.v., These Trolls are superior to man in strength and stature, but far beneath him in mind. 1869 H. F. TOZER Highl. Turkey II. 273 A boy's escape from a Troll or an enchanted horse.
_

____b. attrib. and Comb. That is a troll, as troll-maiden, -wife, -woman; belonging to or inhabited by trolls, as troll-garden, -land, -marsh; also troll-like adj.; troll-bull, a supernatural being in the form of a bull; troll-drum, a drum used in Lappish magical rites; trollman, a magician or wizard.
_
__ 1902 Folk-Lore June 185 On Old Holy Kings' Night black *troll-bulls come up from the sea and visit the byres.
1894 Jrnl. Hellenic Stud. XIV. 270 In Lapland..designs of this character ornamented the *troll-drums of the magicians till within a recent period.
1864 KINGSLEY Rom. & Teut. i. (1875) 1 Fancy to yourself a great *Troll-garden.
1886 J. CORBETT Fall of Asgard I. 65 This is no *Troll-land, but a fair place that Thor has kept for you.
1954 J. R. R. TOLKIEN Two Towers iv. 66 A large Man-like, almost *Troll-like, figure. 1978 Trans. Yorks. Dial. Soc. LXXVIII. 18 Joseph is a troll-like figure, the foil to Heathcliff's gigantic, elemental being.
1886 J. CORBETT Fall of Asgard 36 They had wanted to drive her away for a *troll-maiden.
1865 BARING-GOULD Werewolves viii. 108 Property..imparted to them by the *Trollmen.
1886 J. CORBETT Fall of Asgard I. 59 Over the lake..and over the *Troll marsh to the valley.
1851 THORPE Northern Mythol. I. 113 Hedin met in the forest a *Troll-wife riding on a wolf, with a rein formed of serpents.
1862 H. MARRYAT Year in Sweden II. 390 Herve Ulf, on his way to matin-song, was accosted by a *Trolle woman.

Troll 1. v.

I. 1. intr. To move or walk about or to and fro; to ramble, saunter, stroll, roll; spec. (slang) of a homosexual: to walk the streets, or cruise, in search of a sexual encounter; cf. sense 13.
_
__1377 LANGL. P. Pl. B. XVIII. 296 And us hath he trolled [v.r. tollid] forth is two & thretty wynter. [1561: see 15b.] 1691 tr. Emilianne's Frauds Rom. Monks (ed. 3) 107 Another sort of Pilgrims..who spend their time in trouling from one place of Devotion to another. 1942 E. LANGLEY Pea Pickers I. iii. 41 Past rows of hawthorn hedges in leaf, but lacking flowers, we trolled. 1967 A. WILSON No Laughing Matter III. 201 At first..I just got myself picked up... But later I started trolling. 1967 Listener 21 Dec. 814/3 They all come trolling on in form-hugging black and do evocative things with chairs and ladders and planks of wood. 1981 R. BARNARD Sheer Torture xi. 120, I trolled off quite happily and entered the house.
_

____2. trans. To move (a ball, bowl, round body) by or as by rolling; to roll, bowl, trundle; to turn over and over, or round and round; to roll (the eyes); to throw (dice); spec. to trundle (a bowl) at the game of bowls (also absol.); also, to knock down by bowling.
_
__c1425 St. Eliz. of Spalbeck in Anglia VIII. 117/12 Sche myghte not holde hir heed vpon a pillow..but..trollid it hyderwarde and yderwarde. c1450 Two Cookery-bks. 95 Put all in a treen boll, and trull [v.r. twille] hit to-gidre with thi honde. 1572 [see TROLL-MADAM]. 1599 PORTER Angry Wom. Abingd. (Percy Soc.) 8 Let them trowle the bowles vppon the greene; Ile trowle the bowles in the buttery. 1628 SIR R. LE GRYS Barclay's Argenis 77 Shee trowled her angry eyes on euery side. 1647 FANSHAW Civ. Wars Rome Poems 301 The forbidden Dice to trowle. 1665 T. A. Excell. Roy. Hand 9 Taking a few Pease out of his Pocket,..he troll'd them along the Floor. 1699 J. DUNTON Life & Err. (1818) II. 594 The Duke was then flinging the first bowl. Next trowled the Bishop. 1821 GALT Ann. Parish xlv, The sinner..who loves to troll his iniquity like a sweet morsel under his tongue. 1822 SCOTT Nigel xxi, As I was wont to trowl down the ninepins in the skittle-ground. 1841 THACKERAY Drum I. iii, My Grandsire was trolling the [drum-]sticks.
_

____3. intr. To roll; also, to turn round and round; to spin, whirl.
_
__1581 MULCASTER Positions xix. (1887) 80 Children when they had their whirling gigges vnder the deuotion of their scourges, caused them to troule about the broad streates. 1626 BRETON Fantasticks, Easter Day (1857) 330 The Lovers eyes doe troule like Tennis balls. 1664 POWER Exp. Philos I. 18 Mites..trolling to and fro with this mealy dust..sticking to them. 1730 SWIFT Death & Daphne 88 How pleasant on the Banks of Styx, To troll it in a Coach and Six! 1818 SCOTT Hrt. Midl. l, This is LadyLadythese tamn'd Southern names rin out o' my head like a stane trowling down hill. 1855 SINGLETON Virgil I. 80 Waggons..That lazy troll.
_

____II. 4.____a. intr. To move nimbly, as the tongue in speaking; to wag. Also said of a person. Obs. or arch.
_
__a1616 BEAUMONT Ex-ale-tation of Ale xxxiv, Fill him but a boule, it will make his tongue troule. 1638 FORD Fancies III. iii, His tongue trouls like a mill-clack. 1828 Blackw. Mag. XXIV. 166 See how she trolls with the tongue.
_

____b. trans. To move (the tongue) volubly. ?Obs.
_
__1667 MILTON P.L. XI. 620 To sing, to dance, To dress, and troule the Tongue, and roule the Eye. 1747 [? UPTON] New Canto Spencer's F.Q. xviii. 12 How they troul the Tongue and roll the Eye.
_

____5. fig. trans. To turn over in one's mind; to revolve, ponder, contemplate. Obs. rare1.
_
__1685 F. SPENCE tr. Varillas' Ho. Medicis 107 His Holiness.. had trolled in his understanding so black a crime.
_

____III.____6. trans. To cause to pass from one to another, hand round among the company present; esp. in phrase to troll the bowl. Hence troll-the-bowl as n., a tippler, carouser. Obs.
_
__1575 Song in Gammer Gurton II. Bjb, Then dooth she trowle, to mee the bowle. 1599 PORTER Angry Wom. Abingd. Bijb, Where be..these trowle the bowles, these greene men? 1600 DEKKER Gentle Craft (1862) 4 Trowl the bowl, the jolly nut-brown bowl. 1819 SCOTT Ivanhoe II. vi. 88 Come, trowl the brown bowl to me.
_

____7. intr. Of the vessel or its contents: To move or pass round the company; to circulate, be passed round. Obs.
_
__1620 MIDDLETON Chaste Maid III. ii. 77 Now the cups troll about To wet the gossips' whistles. 1651 Miller of Mansf. 9 Nappie Ale..in a browne Bole Which did about the Board merrily trowle. 1808 SCOTT Marm. VI. Introd. 65 The wassel round, in good brown bowls, Garnish'd with ribbons, blithely trowls.
_

____8. intr. To come in abundantly like a flowing stream; to roll in. Obs.
_
__1576 GASCOIGNE Steele Gl. (Arb.) 68 He that can winke at any foule abuse As long as gaines come trouling in therwith. a1627 MIDDLETON & ROWLEY Spanish Gypsy I. (1653) Cij, This little Ape gets money by the sack full, It troules upon her. 1630 J. TAYLOR (Water P.) Jack-a-Lent Wks. I. 117/1 The pide-coat Mackrell, Pilchard, Sprat, and Soale, To serve great Jacke-a-Lent amaine doe trole. 1689 HICKERINGILL Ceremony-Monger Concl. iii. Wks. 1716 II. 482 The Council of Sardica..saw this Develish Mischief coming trowling into the Church.
_

____9. trans. To cause to roll or flow (in). Obs.
_
__1573 TUSSER Husb. lix. (1878) 137 That trustily thriftines trowleth to thee. 1599 NASHE Lenten Stuffe (1871) 40 To trowl in cash throughout all nations.
_

____IV. 10.____a. trans. To sing (something) in the manner of a round or catch; to sing in a full, rolling voice; to chant merrily or jovially. Const. forth, out. Cf. ROLL v.2 4b and TROLLY-LOLLY int.
__Perh. originally fig. from 6 = to sing in succession, as a round or catch (each line being as it were passed on to the next singer).
_
__1575, 1586 [see TROLLING vbl. n. 2]. 1610 SHAKES. Temp. III. ii. 126 Will you troule the Catch You taught me but whileare? 1672 SHADWELL Miser 1, If thou wert just now trolling out Hopkins and Sternhold. 1813 SCOTT Rokeby III. xxviii, But, hark! our merry-men so gay Troll forth another roundelay. 1863 GEO. ELIOT Romola ix, He could touch the lute and troll a gay song. 1881 R. L. STEVENSON Virginibus Puerisque 283 But let him feign never so carefully, there is not a man but has his pulses shaken when Pan trolls out a stave of ecstasy and sets the world a-singing. 1933 H. ALLEN Anthony Adverse III. IX. lxiv. 1190 At Anthony's suggestion they left off the doleful ballads which at first engrossed them and took to trolling more cheerful lays. 1951 N. M. GUNN Well at World's End xiv. 99 He felt like a voyageur..trolled a note or two and lifted his tweed hat as if it were a sombrero. 1977 Rolling Stone 16 June 69/2 When the Diamonds trolled Them Never Love Poor Marcus, I was moved.
_

____b. intr. To sing in this way; to carol, warble.
_
__1879 STEVENSON Trav. Cevennes 132 He trolled with ample lungs. 1881 Virg. Puerisque 281 Pan, the god of Nature,..trolling on his pipe until he charmed the hearts of upland ploughmen.
_

____11. intr. Of bells: To give forth a recurring cadence of full, mellow tones; of a song: to sound or be uttered in a full, rolling, or jovial voice; transf. of a tune: to be present in or recur constantly to the mind, to run in one's head.
_
__1607 [see TROLLING ppl. a.]. 1678 DRYDEN Kind Keeper III. i, I have had..a Tune trouling in my Head. 1682 H. ALDRICH Upon Christ Church Bells Oxf., O the bonny Christ Church Bells..they..trowle so merrily, merrily. 1813 [see TROLLING ppl. a.] 1890 BARRIE My Lady Nicotine xxx. 239 He strolled away, an air from The Grand Duchess lightly trolling from his lips.
_

____12. trans. To utter nimbly or rapidly; to recite in a full rolling voice. Also intr. of speech.
_
__1625 B. JONSON Staple of N. IV. iv, If he runne To his Iudiciall Astrologie, And trowle the Trine, the Quartile and the Sextile. 1709 MRS. MANLEY Secret Mem. I. 185 The old Ones Discourse trouls all upon Virtue. 1850 L. HUNT Autobiog. III. xix. 50 They speak well out, trolling the words clearly over the tongue. 1874 BLACKIE Hor Hellen. 292 Greek trimeters may be trolled off from the British tongue, as glibly as any hexameters. 1948 J. BERRYMAN Dispossessed 77 Now Tell me. Troll me the sources of that SongAssigned last weekby Blake. 1971 K. MILLETT Sexual Politics (1972) II. iii. 137 The old scholar chuckles while trolling the more rakish passages of Catullus.
_

____V. 13. Angling. intr. To angle with a running line (? orig. with the line running on a troll or winch); also (trans.) to fish (water) in this way; spec.____a. to fish for pike by working a dead bait (usually on a gorge hook) by a sink-and-draw motion;____b. (trans. and intr.), to angle with a spinning bait: = SPIN v. 12a, b;____c. in U.S. and Sc. use (perh. through association with trail or trawl), to trail a baited line behind a boat. Also fig.
__In quot. 1606 perh. confused with TRAWL.
_
__1606 S. GARDINER Bk. Angling 28 Consider how God by his Preachers trowleth for thee. 1651-7 [see TROLLING vbl. n. 3]. 1675 CROWNE Country Wit v, Here have I been angling and trowling for my Father-in-law, and have had him at my hook all day. 1682 NOBBES Compl. Troller (1822) 226 In some places, they troll without a rod, or playing the bait, as I have seen them throw a line out of a boat, and so let it draw after them as they row. 1711 GAY Rural Sports I. 264 Nor drain I ponds the golden carp to take, Nor trowle for pikes, dispeoplers of the lake. 1764 GOLDSM. Trav. 187 The peasant..With patient angle trolls the finny deep. 1814-24 P. HAWKER Instr. Yng. Sportsm. 173 Trolling, or spinning a minnow, is the other most general mode of trout fishing. 1831 Encycl. Brit. (ed. 7) III. 144/2 Trolling, in the more limited sense of the word, signifies catching fish with the gorge-hook, which is composed of two, or what is called a double eel-hook. 1864 WEBSTER, Troll,..to angle..with a hook drawn along the surface of the water. 1881 Harper's Mag. Nov. 831, I troll a cast of flies. 1891 LANG Angling Sk. 5 Trolling a minnow from a boat in Loch Levenprobably the lowest possible form of angling. 1966 E. LINDALL Time too Soon iv. 51 Kamindo had rebuffed him when he had trolled for information. 1984 Monitor (McAllen, Texas) 1 May 6A/3 It will troll the Earth's upper atmosphere for magnetospheric, atmospheric and gravitational data.
_

____14. fig. trans. To draw on as with a moving bait; to entice, allure. Obs.
_
__1565 GOLDING Ovid's Met. II. (1593) 33 They troll me downe to lower waies. 1638 FORD Lady's Trial V. I foster a decoy here, And she trowls on her ragged customer. 1684 J. GOODMAN Winter-even. Confer. I. (1705) 21 The hopes he is fed withal trowls him on.
_

____VI.____15. Phrases.____a. Hawking. (?)
_
__a1529 SKELTON Ware the Hauke 116 With troll, cytrace [?trytrace], and trouy, They ranged, hankin bouy. 1575 R. B. Appius & Virginia Bj, With hey tricke, how trowle, trey trip, and trey trace Trowle hazard in a vengeance.
_

____b. troll and troll by, troll hazard, troll with, as ns., names for various orders of knaves: see quot. and cf. sense 1. Obs. Cant.
_
__1561 J. AWDELAY Frat. Vacab. (E.E.T.S.) 12 Troll and Trol by, is he that setteth naught by no man nor no man by him. Troll with is he that no man shall know the seruaunt from ye Maister... Troll hazard of trace is he that goeth behynde his Maister as far as he may see hym... Troll hazard of tritrace, is he that goeth gaping after his Master.

Here's the etymology: "Middle English trollen, to wander about, from Old French troller, of Germanic origin."

I don't have access to a slang dictionary at the moment, but I can check if you'd like to continue this ("troll," it turns out, is a pretty interesting word).

As for my expertise...I am not an expert on this history of the English language, nor do i have particular expertise in the influence of online discourse on mainstream English usage. But about both I do probably know more than the average joe on the street. I also probably know more about this than your average PhD in English, considering a) how much time I have spent online and b) how much time my colleagues in the English department spend online and know about internet slang.

Nevertheless, I was simply pointing out this: "troll" (as used to describe someone who attempts to bait an opponent into an argument) in online usage derives from both the noun and verb related to the act of fishing by trolling. I am not responsible for online people who know nothing about fishing but lots of dungeons and dragons getting confused about what the term means.

Cheers
Scott

Originally posted by Scott
So when people say "Don't feed the trolls" they mean don't feed the people fishing the forum (like bunge following me around waiting to post an irrelevant reply to one of my posts) to annoy people.

As I have said at several points thus far, "troll" is both a noun and a verb. A troll is someone who engages in trolling; it is the bait itself; it is the practice of trolling.

"Don't feed the trolls" means, as you well know, not to bite at the bait. To push the metaphor even further, and to use your example of bunge as a troll, "don't feed the trolls" means "don't bite at the bait because you'll just feed them (i.e. be the fish that they catch)."

Your confusion (and the origin of that particular phrase) no doubt is the result of people who know more about dungeons and dragons than they do about English or fishing.

Anyway what was your point again? [/B]

My point was that your use of "troll" was incorrect, both in terms of etymology and imagery. That was all.

Cheers
Scott

Originally posted by Scott
Anyway I know you thought you had a good "zing" on me or or something but it's time to stop. You're just wrong (http://www.fact-index.com/i/in/internet_troll.html) and wrong (http://curezone.com/forums/troll.asp) and even on usenet wrong. (http://groups.google.com/groups?q=troll+group:alt.folklore.urban.*&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=alt.folklore.urban.*&selm=8nm5uj%248qi4j%241%40ID-35961.news.cis.dfn.de&rnum=2)

My usage is in common and used by many others. Now run back under the bridge and join bunge.

your link #1:

"Originally this term applied to people who were intentionally posting flamebait, by analogy with the fishing technique of trolling: metaphorically, these people were dragging a conversational lure through the group, hoping for a response. The concept of "this person is trolling our newsgroup" became shortened to "this person is a troll", and picked up the association of the monster trolls of folklore. Note that this is a highly subjective term, as everyone is affected differently by the nature of the term deemed a "troll"."

Your link #2 isn't worth responding to.

Your link #3 (which is from a stellar source...some guy on USENET posting in alt.usenet.folklore.urban.*):

"And that's where the term probably got its start -- from the fishing use of
the word. "Trolling," outside of message boards, describes a method of
fishing where you trail bait through the water from a slowly-moving boat.
You are trying to attract attention from a fish, which will then bite and
you'll reel him in."

As for the confusion over the dungeons and dragons character, I say again:

"I was simply pointing out this: 'troll' (as used to describe someone who attempts to bait an opponent into an argument) in online usage derives from both the noun and verb related to the act of fishing by trolling. I am not responsible for online people who know nothing about fishing but lots [about] dungeons and dragons getting confused about what the term means."

At this point, Scott, you're trolling.

Cheers
Scott

Originally posted by Scott
Look leave me alone and go eat some fishes or raw coonies or whatever you and bunge like to eat when the moon is out.

Again, for the record...

Dungons & Dragons:

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/attract/images/wa/WASEAtrolldk.jpg

Fishing:

http://www.boneshakercharters.com/fishing/trolling.jpg

I love the way that when you get proven wrong you go back to quips. It's cute. Really.

And by the way, you should totally ignore the wikipedia's definition of trolling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll).

Finally, if you want me to leave you alone, stop saying things that require response, clarification or refutation. Otherwise, you're trolling.

Cheers
Scott

Originally posted by midwinter
...
And by the way, you should totally ignore the wikipedia's definition of trolling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll).

Finally, if you want me to leave you alone, stop saying things that require response, clarification or refutation. Otherwise, you're trolling.

Cheers
Scott

Hard to ignore (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Internet_troll&oldid=4415311)

[edit]decided to remove my inflamatory statement so I would be seen as trolling:lol: :lol: :lol:

Why the hell isn't this crapola thread locked?

Nick

This isn't a conversation. This is you talking to a brick wall.

Scott has passed several stages well beyond the noun from of the word troll. He's far too earnest and relentless at what he does. He's gone onto a higher plateau of internet dork, either Arrogant Blithering Idiot or Clever Parody of an Arrogan Blithering Idiot depending on how seriously you take his absurdly inane posts.

Here. Very early in this thread, I said this:

There's apparently a sexual harrassment/blackmail/moneysomehowinvolved situation. He's getting out before he dragged NJ around behind him in some sordid public nastiness

7 hours ago, Reuters said this:

A day after New Jersey Gov. James McGreevey said on Friday he would resign over a homosexual affair, the state's former top Homeland Security official accused his boss of sexually harassing him and trying to buy his silence.

link (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=5974526)

Is this "dirty" politics? Looks like it, considering the timing is designed to prohibit a special election, and therefore keep NJ in Democrat hands. From what I can tell, this wasn't really all that bright of a play for the Dems, since it links homosexuality and political scandal. Was it right for the Gov. to resign and make such a big deal out of his sexuality? I don't think so.

But he did. And it's done.

The problem with this thread is not that it was derailed by a discussion of the origin of "troll"; the problem is that there's no there, there.

Cheers
Scott

He resigned before he was slapped with a sexual harassment lawsuit.