and you will see why 2004...

As much as this is probably true, there's something in me that wants it not to be. How far can Apple go this year with a desktop line maxing out at 1.42GHz? I don't know, but something tells me that either they're going to stick it out (in a messy way) with the G4 or get their act in gear much quicker than we thought.

The original Mac was revolutionary, truly revolutionary - except for the fact that its OS was hacked from Xerox. OS X, though, is a new beast. A new take (fancy XWindows) on an old and trusted operating system, so if anything pops up at the Super Bowl, I would expect a commercial touting the interface benefits once again in the light of breaking away once again from the torture that IS the Windows world of computing. This could be pulled off either very effectively or not, but knowing Apple, it'd be spectacular.

I just do not see how having a new machine with a great processor would do it like the original Mac. Sure, it's going to be great, even beyond that - but is it really as life-changing a step as the first Mac and its GUI were?

That leads to discussion about what WOULD be life-changing enough to merit a 20-year celebration. What would it entail to have the impact the original little beige machine had?

[quote]Originally posted by moki:
<strong>

I don't agree.</strong><hr></blockquote>
:D

[quote]Originally posted by moki:
<strong>

I don't agree.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i'm with moki ... 970-hammer this year... <img src="graemlins/cancer.gif" border="0" alt="[cancer]" />

What about a 970 in the iMac at less than $1000? ;)

Or Apple could declare all out war against Microsoft. :p

Once again moki has spoken and eased the tension that was issued out with the 2004 comment. However, I have some ideas here that may be considered for the mind blowing 2004 date. I know the DOD is working with 3D displays for reasons I won't discuss. The 3D displays may end up being the next leap forward in computing, even if it's hard to imagine now, just like the 1984 Mac was. Here's another thought. Apple chose a breed of apple called the Macintosh. There are other breeds out there and they'd still be Apple's. Food for thought. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

[quote]Originally posted by Brian Green:
<strong>Food for thought. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

:D <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/cancer.gif" border="0" alt="[cancer]" />

[ 03-11-2003: Message edited by: cycle ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by Brian Green:
<strong>Apple chose a breed of apple called the Macintosh. There are other breeds out there and they'd still be Apple's. Food for thought. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Golden Delicious? Winesap? Somehow I just can't see myself booting up an Apple "Granny Smith".

[quote]Originally posted by highfalutintodd:
<strong>Like I said, I know it will never happen because of that pesky need to actually make money thing, but it sure would make it easier for people to buy more Macs. I just recently lost a Mac sale to my Dad based solely on price. He wanted to pay around $600, and there was no Mac that matched the price/features he found on the Compaq he ended up buying.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Frankly, I hope he gets what's coming to him.

Alex

[quote]Originally posted by Addison:
<strong>Won't we see the MPC7457 in an Apple product soon?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yea, what do yu think the iMac is gonna get? The pBook as well? The eMac, etc.

[quote]Originally posted by os10geek:
<strong>The eMac is going to have the lowest technology processors available...it's not exactly Apple's flagship. :rolleyes: </strong><hr></blockquote>

Ok, but then what? It stays at 1.0ghz for how long? :rolleyes:

[ 03-11-2003: Message edited by: KidRed ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by Addison:
<strong>Won't we see the MPC7457 in an Apple product soon?</strong><hr></blockquote>

<a href="http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail/0,1958,2322_1901_23,00.html" target="_blank">Motorola's Press Release</a>

quote from the press release:
"Pricing and Availability
Alpha samples of the MPC7457 and MPC7447 PowerPC processors are available today to selected customers. General market sampling is planned for March, with production expected to commence in Q4 2003. Suggested retail pricing for the MPC7457 at 1 GHz is expected to be $189 (USD) in quantities of 10,000."

So, based on this press release, it depends on what you mean by soon. If Motorola's past history is any guage, production may be delayed and production won't start until ??? And on top of that it will still be using the MPX bus @ what 167MHz maybe if they find it necessary 200MHz and still not support DDR.

Me personally, I'm hoping IBM has alternatives available before Motorola's alleged Q4 production schedule.

[ 03-11-2003: Message edited by: rickag ]</p>

I used a bluetooth mouse yesterday. It was nice, it looked cool, but the word that I would use to describe it is: Mushy. Playing games with one would be a hassle, photoshap would be harder. And the way that Apple keyboards are designed (with USB ports on each side) helps to eliminate the tangle hassle. Wireles mouse. READ: Gimmick. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

[quote]Originally posted by os10geek:
<strong>Um...the eMac isn't even 1000 mhz yet...still at 800. Its a cheap education solution.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I know, but it has to get bumped this year wouldn't you say? Along with iMacs and pBooks. Just showing you where the 7457 is going.

[quote] I don't agree.

<hr></blockquote>

That's the spirit. :D

Apple to do a 20 Anniversary Chiat Day masterpiece?

What would cause Apple to book expensive Superbowl airtime?

Evolutionary or Revolutionary?

That 'iTablet' maybe something pretty special by then. CPUs are getting really powerful per cooling book on the PPC! A Rio G3 powering a digital wallet/iTablet?

A dramatic price cut as Apple goes for it?

Finally, an advert for 'X'?

A 970 based Mac? No. I don't see it.

iMac3? Headless and priced to shift? iMac3 iTablet/docking station idea? With your digital lifestyle on it.

An iCube that works?

A 3D 'X' QExtreme masterpiece to give 10.3 the edge?

An iPhone?

Or merely an aggressive note of intent as all the pieces are in place...the advert flashes by Stores, people using 'X', the whole Mac range...the software...the Apple 'Thang' thing infomercial. 'We're back...' kinda thing. Which. By 2004. They will be. :D

'X' for Windows? :D (I'm still not ruling this out...to some degree.)

Lemon Bon Bon

:confused:

Hard to see, the future is...

[quote]Originally posted by fred_lj:
<strong>The original Mac was revolutionary, truly revolutionary - except for the fact that its OS was hacked from Xerox.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Telling that story a hundred thousand times doesn't make it any truer. The first GUI-alike environment was, to my knowledge, developed in the 60s, but considered too "science-fiction".

Xerox had a GUI, yeah. Did they have a global menubar, or even a menubar at all? A trash? The intention to sell the thing? No.

Apple was a spawn of Xerox, a child that Xerox wanted to disassociated from. And that thrown away child turned into a marvel and pioneer of modern computing. :)

thank you Moki, once again for calming our desperate
need for comfort in these uncertain times.

[quote]Originally posted by Krassy:
<strong>

this one:

http://people.ambrosiasw.com/~andrew/stuck/stuck6.jpg

edit: <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> :D :D <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

[ 03-11-2003: Message edited by: Krassy ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

aha, that hammer.
nice work ivy, it's even upgradable with a rackmounted hellfire anti tank missile launcher. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

(where the hell did moki get that sweeeeeeeet prototype from?)

[ 03-11-2003: Message edited by: gar ]</p>

[quote] is that people tend not to give the most brilliant and diligent inventors much credit after the novelty wears off.
<hr></blockquote>

Let me, then, give Apple the credit they're due.

Gentlemen, esteemed 'insider peers, raise your glasses to Apple...the true pioneers of the GUI we know and love today.

Lemon Bon Bon :)

[quote]Originally posted by rickag:
<strong>

Assuming the eMacs will use a G4, and the eMac is bumped this year, then it will be a higher clocked MPC7455, unless Motorola beats their own stated schedule for the MPC7457 <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> .

Motorola has stated,"with production expected to commence in Q4 2003, which means to me, at best, the MPC7457 will appear in a computer in early 2004.

Now all bets are off if you also have inside information on Motorola's MPC7457 similar to the inside information you have on IBM's 970. <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[surprised]" />

[ 03-11-2003: Message edited by: rickag ]

oppps wrote MPC7555 instead of MPC7455, just a Freudian slip wishing for the mythical G5 from Motorola. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

[ 03-11-2003: Message edited by: rickag ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

The eMacs already use a G4. The 7457 will probably go to the iMac and maybe pBook then eventually make it down to the eMac. ZThis is all assumption, assuming the eMac is around next year, etc. The iMac can only be bumped a few more times before it's done like the towers. So unless the entire line goes 970, the G4 will still be around. Unless of course, IBM gets their G3 with altivec going. No inside info, just creating my own conclusions.

If there is even a commercial in the works, I seriously doubt it would be for the 970. "Look, we're not slow anymore"
not exactly a great premise for an ad. If there is one in the works, it's for something none of us have even thought of.

Steve said he'd milk the Macintosh for all it was worth and move on to the next great thing.

He also opined that he had one more computer (read: platform) left in him.

Whether or not the specific rumor about the ad is true, I have long since held that OS 9 restricted Apple to essentially minute variations of the same architecture, and OS X would free them to an astonishing extent. OS 9 is dead, and Classic is by now blissfully unaware of the actual hardware it's running on. The G4, itself something of an enforcer of the standard way to build a computer, is on the way out. HyperTransport and RapidIO are here, and with them comes the ability to design architectures that were the province of SGI and their ilk not three years ago. Video cards are becoming staggering in terms of what they can accomplish, and display technology is improving quickly. Rendezvous and the SonyEricsson Clicker app (in combination with OS X's awesome and rapidly improving OSA implementation) are taking networking and the digital hub to the next level, fast. Things are just starting to get interesting.

Oh, yeah, and Apple is targeting Microsoft now, in earnest.

My bet is that if Apple runs another SuperBowl ad, it will be to usher in a generation of personal computer that we haven't even considered. I'll be interested to see what it is.

Even if not, I see the Macintosh going through a real growth spurt in the next few years, technologically.

ibrowse if you are not at least gonna drop a hint, why mention it at all! :mad:

[quote]Originally posted by gar:
<strong>aha, that hammer.
nice work ivy, it's even upgradable with a rackmounted hellfire anti tank missile launcher. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

(where the hell did moki get that sweeeeeeeet prototype from?)</strong><hr></blockquote>

What prototype are you referring to? The Hummer? I actually sold it a few years ago.

[quote]Originally posted by moki:
<strong>What prototype are you referring to? The Hummer? I actually sold it a few years ago.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Is it just me, or is the hummer the ugliest, squarest (I'm referring to it's shape), and biggest pig this planet has ever seen in an automobile. Christ, the Model T Ford was more aerodynamic! What kind of wonderful milage did that baby get you, Moki? 4, 5 mpg?

I have a compact SUV myself, a GMC, because it had the best ride. I am not sure my spine could take the jolting that the Hummer dishes out.

As far as 2004, who knows, but I agree that it is a little bit early in the game to start designing a commercial. Their product line is due for a face lift within the next 6-9 months, so I doubt anything concrete is in the works. Probably just the spot and the agency. :rolleyes:

I don't think Apple has to 'sell' or 'announce' any new products as much as just to say, "hey we're here, we make macs, we aren't dead yet despite popular anti-mac belief, it's our 20th anniversay, come check us out' type of idea only on steroids laced with coke after doing 5 shots of jager.

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>I don't think Apple has to 'sell' or 'announce' any new products..snip..</strong><hr></blockquote>

But they will announce something, that I am fairly sure of. Whether it is monumental or not, is another thing.

[quote]Originally posted by Toadie:
<strong>Is this thread going to stay open until Superbowl '04?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sure.

[quote]Originally posted by iBrowse:
<strong>

Sure.</strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

[quote]Originally posted by Rhumgod:
<strong>Is it just me, or is the hummer the ugliest, squarest (I'm referring to it's shape), and biggest pig this planet has ever seen in an automobile. Christ, the Model T Ford was more aerodynamic! What kind of wonderful milage did that baby get you, Moki? 4, 5 mpg?

I have a compact SUV myself, a GMC, because it had the best ride. I am not sure my spine could take the jolting that the Hummer dishes out.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, the Hummer (the original one, not the watered-down H2) is a beast. I got about 12mpg (it is a diesel), and going over 80mph wasn't easy.

On the other hand, I was able to pull a semi out of a snow drift, drive it around a lake with water up to my waist, and jump it a few dozen feet, as well as drive it on some of the most extreme terrain around. It was fun.

As for your spine, the Hummer actually has a very easy ride, mostly because of its weight... and you can also inflate/deflate the tires from inside the cabin to get any ride you like.

And yes, it is the most utterly unpractical car around... but it is fun, if you are willing to take it offroad and beat the hell out of it (which I was).

awwwwwhh Moki, you don't know nothing about nothing :( ;) <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

I don't think that anyone is even close. I don't think that the 20 year ad will have anything to do with computing.

The biggest home-run that Jobs has hit has been the iPod. Critical acclaim, big sales, undeniably best of class.

In 1984, Jobs took on computing and personalized it. My suspicion is that in 2004, he will take on the consumer eletronics giant by bringing in the next generation iPod.

We all know about the rumoured video capabilities of the next generation. We have heard about the deals with TIVO to support Rendezvous. I suspect that the next big Apple breakthrough product will be an iPod that can hook up to your TIVO, allowing you to carry not only music, but personal and broadcast video (d/l'ed from the TIVO) anywhere you want to go.

ok, another simpsons quote

Ranier Wolfcastle drives up in his hummer...

Marge: "What kind of gas mileage does it get?"

Ranier: "1 highway, 0 city"

:D :D :D

[quote]Originally posted by cycle:
<strong>organic display?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Carrot Vision!

I have often gotten mad at my car CD player (for being crap) and wishing it wasn't crap. I have one CD that has the outside half of the disc clear and part of the design goes out into it, but my car CD player (along with any slot-loading computers) hate these. One time my car stereo ate it and refused to eject it, or even see that it was in there. I had to take the whole damn thing apart, the whole time saying "I wish Apple made a car stereo system, then I could know how to fix it, if it broke"...

Too bad that wouldn't happen, or maybe it's a good thing. I don't know how Apple would do as a Sony-style company. I'm sure they would be great at it, but I don't know how the market would take it.

[quote]Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:
<strong>After the Macintosh, steve moved onto NexT, which apart from a relitavely loyal developer base, was dead for the most part. Mac OSX is Next re-incarnated. 10.2 is where the true revolution in GUI is, with a fully 3D accelerated desktop. We havent even been given a taste of whats possible with this technology (Quartz Extreme), 3D icons anyone ? minimizing windows that move to a dock located 'into' the desktop ? etc... ms dosent have that yet, and i think thats where Apple will present it's most innovative UI development in the next 12 months. The technology is there...now it's upto the UI ppl to make it happen imo.
Cheers.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's not too hard of a concept, I don't think interface changes are related to any grand 2004 announcement. UI enhancements are most likely just going to be a 'feature' of 10.3. If there is going to be another 'insanely great' thing, it would be much more amazing than a more 3D UI. If Apple is requesting an ad with more impact than the 1984 ad, it's not for 3D icons.

I'm waiting for the completion of the Digital Hub. ;)

[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:
<strong>He also opined that he had one more computer (read: platform) left in him.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That quote is from an infamous behind-the-scenes book about the history of Apple (the title evades me at the moment) and is ascribed to Steve Jobs. Apparently it was his main reason for wanting to go on an indefinite LOA from Apple - and the computer referred to turned out to be NeXT. Today we are seeing the amalgamation of "his" two great computers...

The initial reason for his wanting a LOA was to avoid being kicked off the board, having completely undermined development work done on the Mac family (incidentally, the Mac wasn't "his" idea at first; he was commandeered to go work there and then took over the whole thing).

History shows that SJ has mellowed and matured considerably since then... luckily...

And this next Anniversary Mac will be a very diferent beast from the first one - in all but its visionary statement of where the computer concept will be going over the next decade...

engpjp

Macintosh Omega? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> And anyway, the only real computers in 1976 were the NASA mainframes. Good idea, though. :) But I like my idea better.

(Zooming and panning around the beautiful Powermac 970 casing)

(Narration) The all-new Powermac 970. With a warp speed processor brought to you by the company that kicked Kasparov's little ass in the most important chess game in history, that pitted man against machine in a sport of intellect. But the Powermac 970 works with man, not against him. (Fade out)

Try to contain your envy. :D

Yeah...an Apple ad that openly insults Dell and the like. Where would a thread about Future Aoole Advertising go? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[quote]Originally posted by rampancy:
<strong>

That quote was from Apple Confidential, by Owen Linzmayer. And actually, I think it was referring to him wanting to have Apple listen to him. At around the time that Spindler was Apple CEO (or maybe it was shortly after Amelio took control) he said that he had a plan to save Apple, but no one would listen to him (in retrospect, his plan was probably the "Digital Hub" idea).

Amorph's interpretation struck me as odd, since I always thought that the computer he referred to when he said "I've got one more left in me" was the iMac. </strong><hr></blockquote>

That doesn't really make sense, though, partly because (of course) he's kept right on going after the iMac's introduction (and reintroduction) and partly because the iMac was just a restatement of the original Mac.

I've taken Steve to mean "platform" when he says "computer," because he thinks in terms of whole widgets. The AIO is an obvious consequence of that ethos. The difference between the next computer (heh) and the previous ones (Apple I, II, III, Macintosh and NeXT) is that rather than being an abrupt, incompatible changeover it'll be a transformation of the Macintosh into a new model over time, so as to preserve the legacy user base and thus give the new platform an immediate and substantial sales and software base that it wouldn't otherwise have. We've been witnessing this transformation for the last few years. It was held up first by OS 9, and then by the immaturity of OS X and (to a lesser extent) by the G4. Now, however, things will start to get interesting.

[quote]<strong>I agree with the other people who say that the big 2004 SuperBowl announcement is going to be the 970 + 10.3. To me, the transition to the 970 is going to be every bit as revolutionary as the original Power Macs were to the 68k generation. </strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't agree. The 970 and 10.3 will undoubtedly be part of the revolution, but think about the 1984 ad: It did not identify a product. It was a declaration of independence, if you will, that resonated deeply with people. If anything, Microsoft's monopoly is worse than IBM's was in 1984 — it's certainly no better — and corporate IT is not so different from the infamous "white-robed priesthood" that the personal computer was supposed to overthrow. The PC is so utterly stagnant that even MS is trying to find a way to pull its platform out of the commodity realm at least partially (tablets, XBox, etc.). The time is ripe for another ad with the same primal power that the 1984 ad carried, priming people for Apple's next radical restatement of what a personal computer can — and should — be capable of.

I'm 100% sure that it won't attack PC users. That's what the infamous "Lemmings" ad did. Granted that anyone who's had to wrestle with IT will find it incredibly funny, and granted that it rings painfully true 18 years later; but it insulted and alienated a lot of IT people, and that didn't help any. Apple is currently courting IT, so howevermuch Steve might think of them as lemmings inconviencing their users for the sake of their own job security — and howevermuch that might, in fact, be true — it's not going to air as an advertizement.

[quote]<strong>Or perhaps, maybe a ressurected Cube? After all, Steve did say that they'd bring the Cube back one day...right?</strong><hr></blockquote>

The Cube is "on ice," and the basic idea is definitely sound. Look at the success of the various mini-PCs (including notebooks) now that people are beginning to realize that, for nearly all contemporary needs, including professional needs, you don't need a big, ungainly tower anymore.

Steve tellingly called the Cube "the ultimate OS X workstation." I'm sure we'll see something very much like it, because the idea of a small, quiet, powerful and stunning workstation is deeply appealing.

But Steve thinks holistically, if you will, so if he's planning another 1984 ad it's because he's got something ready to go on all fronts. Individual products can be introduced in keynotes and Apple Events. Even the iMac didn't get a Super Bowl ad.

Lemon Bon Bon, as usual I agree with you.

Since most Superbowl viewers haven't seen a Mac in 20 years, never heard of Mac OS X, and have no idea what Macs do these days, a Superbowl commercial certainly doesn't need to show anything new. I hope the commercial will:
(a) Show a computer.
(b) Show Mac OS X, iPhoto, iTunes.
(c) Not be flashy or confusing, but clearly show some of what Mac OS X does and why it's better.

What would be cool would be a clear-speaking football player, say Eddie George, using a 17" iMac and running the program.

Given the commercials I see lately, the chances of all three coming true is near-zero. I expect something more like this:
Front of Apple Store. Flash! Young people smiling. Flash! Student in class gets ibook out of backpack and starts to open it. Flash! Brief glimpse of iPod on teen walking to school. Flash! Brief glimpse of iPhoto uploading photos. Flash! Teenagers greeting each other in front of convenience store, one holding a slightly visible iBook. Flash! Picture of CD tray with disk closing, then a rotating Burn Disk icon. Flash! And so on. "Apple. Your Digital Life". Fade to black.

Viewer response: Huh?

<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

[quote]Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon:
<strong>
Like Amorph says, things are about to get interesting this time. Round 2 in the Apple vs M$.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

In a sense, though, I don't see things this way. Gates sees everything in terms of "competition," and "winning," and that's why MS is an oppressive monopoly that kills smaller companies with better products to avoid any challenge to its own mediocre offerings.

I see Apple replacing PowerPoint and Outlook and so forth not to compete with MS, but because a great deal of the capabilities of the available hardware and software technologies are being squandered. MS takes the same program and makes it bigger and slower for no obvious reason in order to spur hardware upgrades, because they don't have any imagination for how to exploit the capabilities of new hardware — their focus is on "winning," not on technology. This is a fundamental culture clash, which the 1984 ad underlined, and which I think any sequel will underline: Apple is trying to make the most usable machine available. MS is trying to kill everyone who opposes them and turn everything into a consistently growing revenue stream. One exploits technology; the other exploits the end user.

This is obviously idealized, because I'm working within the confines of hypothetical ad copy. ;) MS has displayed the occasional stroke of inspiration, and Apple has displayed the occasional streak of greed. But there is more than a grain of truth to the generalization. Apple is product driven; MS is profit driven. These differences have a very real impact on what the companies offer, and how they impact the world.

Very well said Amorph

[quote]Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon:
<strong>...and with iWorks (hello Thinksecret!), next time M$ threatens to yank the 'Office' umbilical cord, Steve can say, We don't need it. We got iWorks and it's free to all our Apple Store customers...' M$ must have made quite a few enemies over the years...I can't wait as one by one they line up with the baseball bats...</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's exactly what I've been thinking. Apple may not be gearing up to wage a war, but instead getting ready to prove to the tech world that they can survive on their own just fine. An Apple community that doesn't need to rely in any way on the MS world, but can work in sync with them just fine, would be an incredible thing. Imagine how much more credit Macs would be given if they had all their own software that before had to come from Microsoft. I think they know that much of the Mac world is ready to take the leap with an Apple alternative to the Office crutch they have seemed to lean on for a while now. I do however think that Steve would be slightly reluctant to go too far into the direction of a software company, after NeXT started to fall and tried to offer just software, but still went down. Which further strengthens the idea of a Digital Hub, "hardware prices may be too high for some people's likes, but look, we're also an amazing software company offering more than a computer, we have a hub". Over the last few years we've been seeing the parts coming together, but not really as a whole. But what I think we're seeing here, starting with the introduction of the first iMac, hitting it's next substantial landmark in 2004, is one of the best planned out comeback stories in the industry.

[ 03-16-2003: Message edited by: iBrowse ]</p>