Moto sez: no G5 in January

Interesting article. But it does NOT say "Moto says no G5 in January." All it said was the G4 still has time left in it, and they don't pre-announce Apple products.

Couple of questions:
The G4 maxes out around 1Ghz? That's not a good sign for Apollo, is it?

The G5 has a .10 process, rapid I/O, 64-bit and 32-bit backward compatibility. That looks like it's not going to simply be Apollo renamed G5.

Well they're not specific. But they sure seem to be trying hard to downplay expectations. Reading between the lines, I'd say the G4 cracks the ghz barrier (just barely) in January.

Can anyone confirm whether Moto has successfully started manufacturing on the .1 micron process? I didn't think they had, but I could be very wrong. IMHO, that's the most telling part of the whole interview, making me think that the G5 won't be here until later in 2002...

I will buy a 1Ghz G4 iMac as long as it sports higher than 1024x768 rez...

[quote]Originally posted by Yow:
<strong>
Can anyone confirm whether Moto has successfully started manufacturing on the .1 micron process? </strong><hr></blockquote>

AFAIK, they aren't remotely close. They just cracked 0.13.

[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: msp ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:
<strong>I thought G5 was .13?</strong><hr></blockquote>IIRC, there was some naming convention that Moto calls .13 what would usually be called .15, so maybe by .10 they really mean .13.

I don't remember the details, though. Help someone?

Just read the article. Motorola goes to great lengths to neither confirm nor deny the rumors. My guess is that the G5 PowerMacs will not be ready until late February or early March at the earliest and Apple is still deciding what to do. Should they pre-announce the G5 at MWSF or introduce one last round of G4 PowerMacs first?

apple_otaku

Maybe I read a different article but that sounded really good to me. They talked positively about the G5 and then said 'we can't comment on how Apple will apply this technology" or "we can't discuss their product releases".

When they said the G4 had potential then followed up with Sisco likes the chip. Nothing about or eluding to Apple using the chip in Jan. The speed increase would only be 67mhz?

I think it's a good sign :)

Telling us what? That there will be a G5 in January or won't be? If the G4 tops out at only 1Ghz as Motorola suggested then it would be about time for it to move into the iMac line and the G5 to take over the PowerMac line.

apple_otaku

After reading the article I actually feel that there is an even better chance of seeing the G5 in January. I'm still not counting on it but there is hope...

apple_otaku

There might be an announcement of the G5 in January and there might even be a demo of a G5 OS X 2.0 in January, but I wouldn't look for a release until mid year. It will take at least that long to proof the G5, to tweak the OS and to ramp up the approved G5s for production. Considering that a great many other changes will be in store such as faster bus speeds and memory changes June seems a more realistic date for shipping. As a matter of fact the G5 may be introduced as a server prior to a top end consumer solution to start with.

What you can look forward to in January is some form of updated iMac with a top end G3 in the above GHZ range and a dual G4 at a GHZ with a faster bus speed. Just my opionion and it is worth about as much as everyone elses conjectures. :cool:

And to add to the conjecture here take a look at this from <a href=" http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/23078.html" target="_blank">TheRegister</a>.

G5's are just around the corner if this article is right.

COOL!! :D

[quote]Originally posted by ac2c:
<strong>There might be an announcement of the G5 in January and there might even be a demo of a G5 OS X 2.0 in January, but I wouldn't look for a release until mid year. It will take at least that long to proof the G5, to tweak the OS and to ramp up the approved G5s for production. Considering that a great many other changes will be in store such as faster bus speeds and memory changes June seems a more realistic date for shipping. As a matter of fact the G5 may be introduced as a server prior to a top end consumer solution to start with.

What you can look forward to in January is some form of updated iMac with a top end G3 in the above GHZ range and a dual G4 at a GHZ with a faster bus speed. Just my opionion and it is worth about as much as everyone elses conjectures. :cool: </strong><hr></blockquote>

WHAT???

I don't know how much you know about chips and their release but it sure as heck isn't going to take 6 months to "proof" it. As a chip is designed and fabbed it is released to those who are going to use it, so they can test it for bugs, errata, etc... When they discover problems they alter the chip to correct it, that is why you see proto revs (0.1, 0.2, 0.3, etc...). When they Gold Master a chip it is "ready" to be used in products. They still may find bugs, but for the most part they aren't significant (once in a while you'll find one like the Intel deal).

The article looks like a no confirm, no deny statement. I know from my few Mot sources that the G5 will be ready in Q1, but no date was given. My first guess was late Feb, early March, but now I lean more towards a Jan release.

If the G4 only tops at 1GHz as said then I would say they switch now. You can't switch the iMac/book line over and have no headroom. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see the Mac lineup look like this after the expo:

PowerMac G5 (1GHz to 1.4GHz)
PowerBook G4 (667MHz & 800MHz)
iMac G4 (500MHz to 700MHz) maybe still a G3 low end model.
iBook G3 (600MHz & 700MHz)

This of course all hinges on the G5, but it's my guess (remember the word GUESS).

[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: Slacker ]</p>

For me, the clincher is AtAT's attitude. They have an excellent track record on their predictions over the past year or so. They have been very quick to diss bogus rumors - for example, the flat panel iMac at MWNY. They're almost never the first to start a rumor, but they seem to have a source who will tell them "yea" or "nay" pretty accurately.

Based on their last couple of episodes, they seem to be taking the G5 rumor quite seriously. They are embracing the 1.2 - 1.6 gig range with 1.0 - 1.4 as a fallback. If it was BS, they'd be saying so. I'm convinced the G5 is for real at MWSF.

Pardon me while I go wipe up some drool...

Tom Moyer

The thing that makes me a little edgy is the fact that all these Register and Mosr rumors are coming from the same source. If they where getting info from 2 different people, then I would be more inclinded to beleive it.

Well if you see a G5 rumor on Cnet the day before expo its prolly will come.

[quote]Originally posted by NeoMac:
<strong>You guys are being zealously blind. The man from Motorola clearly says "don't get your hopes up" about the G5 so soon.

Like my grand-daddy says, "if it sounds too good to be true, then it is not true".

1Ghz or more G4s for MWSF and that's it folks! Be happy, at least we're not stuck at 500Mhz still. :)



[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: NeoMac ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

...And I think they forgot "we don't want Steve bitch slapping us silly for implying anything to the contrary."

The article seems to imply that th eG5 will not be good at symetrical multiprocessing . . . .

is this true, no Dual G5s in the future? anybody know about this?

Is Motoman back on these boards yet?

Shess. Apple's pro hardware is soooo damn stale right now. Seriously, PC 133? 133mhz FSB? Come on...the rest of the industry moved on a long time ago. Apple NEEDS a major motherboard revision and a CPU upgrade very very soon. Time ran out 8 months ago.

I'm failry sure Moto has begun to start pumping out CPUs for apple. Hell they have already started dumping "g5" stuff into phat routers and whatnot. The technology is ready.

Moreover, hyper transport is ready as well. AMD is starting to use it. Their's your faster bus speeds right there..

All of this major next-gen technology is DONE being developed. You can purchase many hardware solutions that are incorporating it right now. Don't be surprised if Apple starts to clear the channel of G4s in a month. Apple simply needs to put the peices of the puzzle togther and stick it in case with a door.

Maybe he's hard at work trying to get the G5 out for an Q1 02 release?

[quote]Originally posted by Smircle:
<strong>Originally posted by Bozo the Clown:


If you think about how likely it is that Moto (of all companies) is able to pull the stunt of doubling the clocking, you cannot avoid feeling this is a bit far-fetched, however.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Doubling the clock speed is not a big deal when you think about it. It's an entire new core, so they can avoid design issues that hampered the G4, and it's got a 10 stage pipeline (the original G4 had 4 and the newer G4's have 7). How did Intel go to warp speed on the P4?? The pumped the crap out of the pipeline!!! The good thing with the G5 is that it is supposed to outperform the G4 clock cycle for cycle plus the extended MHz, whereas the P4 is slower cycle for cycle than the P3.

I guarantee you will see a PowerMac G5 in the Q1-02, my source says no doubt about it. He just doesn't have a date. However my opinion is that if he is so sure Q1 than I would believe earlier Q1 so if something caused the date to slip, you could still get it out later in the quarter.

You might even say that the fact that this guys said "the G5 will be released "at some point"" and "will reach 2 GHz "at some point"" indidates that these two "points" are actually the same.
Initial speeds of 2GHz, anyone?

OK, this is BS, but it's not the first BS posted here.

G-news

[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>

They DID NOT deny it.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

They might as well have! If they were worried about Steve busting their balls about disclosing sensitive info, they could have just as easily said "no comment" to a request for an interview or to any of the questions.

How do you account for this:
[quote]
Conceding that work on the G5 chip is progressing "well", Clark warned that Motorola "doesn't want to fan the flames of expectation".
<hr></blockquote>

Let's see, if the G5 was due in January, why bother saying all this? Why would he WANT to stifle the flames of expectation? Sure, fine, Apple wants to make a big splash. Would Moto saying "no comment" really undermine this?

Furthermore:
[quote]
"There's only one announced product built on the E500 core that's at the base of G5s," Clark explained. Announced at the Microprocessor Forum in San Jose in October, this is an embedded product (the MPC 8540) designed for high-speed networking applications.
<hr></blockquote>

Pretty unambiguous there: the 8540 is NOT the G5. Alot of the technology that WILL go into the G5 is in the 8540, but they are not one and the same thing. Unless you think the man is actually lying!

The Moto goes on to talk about all the features that will be included in the G5 "at some point", but follows this discussion directly with this:

[quote]
However, Clark wanted to mollify speculation of a G5 Mac, pointing out that the potential of the G4 architecture has "exceeded Motorola's initial expectations". He said: "The G4 has a great deal of remaining potential. There's a great deal of headroom left in the chip, which still has enormous usability."
<hr></blockquote>

Webster's:
Mollify: 1. to allay the anger of; placate. 2. to lessen the intensity; temper. 3. to reduce the rigidity of; soften.

Translation: Calm down, fellas! G4@1GHZ is what you're getting, and it ain't all that bad.

If you didn't get it there, a few sentences later:

[quote]
Clark's message to Macintosh users was simple: "We don't want to raise people's expectations beyond what's possible. We will not discuss how or when customers, such as Apple, are applying our technology."
<hr></blockquote>

Everyone seems to only read the second sentence in this paragraph. "He's saying 'no comment', so it must mean that it's coming in January!!!" That's plainly not the case here. It reads more like: "Confidentially, don't get your hopes up. Of course, I can't say anything officially."

Bring on your objections...

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>

And the exact opposite of everything you said is true as well as it's all based on one's perception.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Exactly.

It's night-time here, and this thread is going BUMP.

Disregard all the to-ing and fro-ing about what is and is not implied by Motorola's statement: it's deliberately vague, and can therefore be read in various ways. Nothing to get excited about.

But I really liked val1s's post about dual-core G4s. This does seem to me to be the only obvious way to reconcile the claim that the G4 has lots of headroom, and tops out at 1GHz.

What are the impediments to producing a dual-core G4? I would think that this would constitute a relatively minor redesign of the 7450, but a substantial challenge from a fabrication standpoint. But it appears that Motorola's finally whipped their fabs into shape.

So here's my suggestion: we're about to see not G5s, but dual-core G4s. These chips will be expensive, and will only last a short time on the market before being superseded by the G5. But they will serve their purpose, which is to give Apple something to brag about, and to provide a stepping-stone to the G5 and perhaps a whole slew of multi-core chips in the future.

Taking this thought a little further: perhaps the G5 will look very much like 4x8540's on a single die with a shared cache and a beefy Altivec unit?

Yeah I saw the VueScan's note on G5 too.

Hope that's NOT a typo :)

Here's the screen cap of the site

http://polluxchung.com/foto/vue.gif

Moto sez: no G5 in January - AppleInsider