G5 - The truth

Actually, he sounds legit, and his post was interesting. Also, I these features are totally plausible, and I really doubt A|W ported Maya to OSX to be run on a 500 mhz G4. These features Dorsal M talks about are the hardware Maya should be run on. Basically, with the next G4s, apple will be entering the graphics workstation market. These beasts will be built to do 3D, and will include extra motherboard chips to accelerate this.

[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: stimuli ]</p>

nice to see that the real Dorsal has returned.

:)

Seems like the real Dorsal. Welcome back.

that wouldn't be old tech. 1.4 Ghz g4 on a 333 mhz bus with DDR Ram = not old tech.

Dorsal M, if you get the chance, could you tell us a little about 3D on these amchines?

[quote]Originally posted by Leonis:
<strong>But I don't think those new PowerMac will beat the Athlon unless it's equiped with G5 :(
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Unfortunately, I think you might be right.

I have been running both Lightwave (only helping my friends on rendering) and Cinema using both Mac and Athlon PCs

The 1.6Ghz Athlon Thunderbird smokes the dual 800 PowerMac (not to mention my DP 500) by a quite significant margin while cost slightly more than 1/3 the cost of the PowerMac!

My 1.1Ghz Athlon PC only costs me $600CDN and it's 15% faster on rendering than my DP 500! :mad:

[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]</p>

Quite simply Athalons kick one hell of a lot of ass. But who knows how the a G4 will perform with DDR ram and some tinkerings. We may be pleasantly surprised, enough to keep us satisfied untill the G5 eventualy makes its debut.

So no G5's. Well that doesn't surprise me really.

Anyway...a G4 based POwermac announced at MWSF better include some technological advances. DDR Ram, HyperTransport and GHz+ Processors (they better not hack off the external caches on the Powermacs like they are with everything else). 800MPs Firewire? Who cares? It will be well over a year before any companies implement it...PC makers are still starting to implement Firewire 1.0 let alone 2.0. It will be a while before Cannon or Sony implement it on their cameras, or Firewire hard drives implement it. I say put money elsewhere Apple, better MB technology, better front side bus. Forget USB 2.0 and 800mbps Firewire, it's too early.

[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: Bodhi ]

[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: Bodhi ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>And why does IBM have a G5 chip<a href="http://lhd.datapower.com/db/dispproduct.php3?DISP?2371" target="_blank">already?</a> Why would IBM have a G5 (server?) chip and then have Apple come out with a G5 made by MOT?

So, if IBM and MOT are fabbing this chip doesn't that help the chances for a Jan release as opposed to March?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think this is merely a coincidence as the terminology in that link refers to IBM system model numbers, not the processor chips.

I am inclined to believe Dorsal and will stick with the updated MB with an upgraded G4. Will I try to sell my DP800 before MWSF as I have my past 3 systems in anticipation of a significant enough upgrade to make it worthwhile? Hmmm, been burnt before... but isn't that part of the fun of being on the bleeding edge? :D

Since Dorsal was right about the last mobo/CPU prediction, he must be right about this one. I mean, if his last prediction about new mobos was right, hoe could be ever be wrong.

And of course, if Apple had G5 powermacs, Dorsal would get one for sure, because he's on Apple's inside track. Yeah, Jobs says, "ok, we have the new G5 prototypes all set, now why the hell doesn't Dorsal have one?!?!?".

:rolleyes:

This guy is taking you all for a ride. I've never seen so many gullibil people in my life.

BTW, if you want real insider info, goto badflamingo's forums. They are the real thing, not full of idiots like Dorsal.

Can someone briefly outline Dorsal M's track record for those of us who paid absolutely no attention last time round?

Didn't he also nail the specs for the G4 PowerBook and G4 towers that were introduced at MWSF 2001 in January? I honestly don't remember.

_aarons

I call BS on this one.

Regards,
Alex Warren

Hmm....reading the post it does seem like it's Dorsal, and the mods have confirmed it is indeed the real deal.

What COULD be the case is:

-Dorsal does not work for a major company such as Adobe that would be sure to get prototype G5s
-Dorsal has received the 7460 machines that Apple will introduce as their back-up plan if there is no way the G5s can ship within a reasonable time span after MWSF
-Apple is in fact going to keep G4s in the low-end PowerMacs and these are the machines that Dorsal has
-Dorsal just hasn't received those G5s quite yet :)

I don't know, I see too much evidence pointing to the G5. However Apple always finds a way to disappoint.

Keep hitting us up with info Dorsal.

Well exactly. There's no doubt that Dorsal is telling us what he receives. I'm not going to say that he is discredited because the systems he talked about before MWNY never panned out. Like someone in an earlier post mentioned, he usually talks about more than one motherboard. The one he "thought" would be introduced was cut by Apple at the last minute probably. Dorsal gives us great info and his info hints at what we can expect.

[quote]Originally posted by Bodhi:
<strong>800MPs Firewire? Who cares? It will be well over a year before any companies implement it... ...Forget USB 2.0 and 800mbps Firewire, it's too early.</strong><hr></blockquote>

*ahem: the following is sarcasm*

What!!?!? No floppy drive? USB? What!!?!?

They could easily stop at Rev 0.8, call it final, then begin mass production.

[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>

not if there are still problems</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think he was assuming that there were no problems and therefore Apple could finalize it and beging fabbing :)

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>

I think he was assuming that there were no problems and therefore Apple could finalize it and beging fabbing :) </strong><hr></blockquote>

Exactly

[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>well of course if there were no problems they could do that :confused: </strong><hr></blockquote>

LOL, that's what he was assuming in his post when you replied "only if there are no problems". I was just clarifying for you as you seemed to miss that his post concluded based on the possibility of no problems :)

well well, this place is alive again. is it staying up now better than before? i missed the crap people used to toss back and forth around there. /. isn't nearly as entertaining.

[quote]Originally posted by iBORG:
<strong>It must be terribly entertaining for Dorsal M to read through this forum topic and see all the speculation and turns in specs.

Hehe ;-)

Thanks God rumors dont rely on YOU Members =))))

PS: I still dont understand why this site is STILL down and I havent seen a glue for the readers why? I mean, I have been reading a "resuming publication" sicne around April or such ;-))</strong><hr></blockquote>

Just wait. It'll be back soon. As you may have seen the AI staff has already changed the design and they're working hard and the rumors will be back.

Even if i prefer a G5 the outcome of a new G4 the 7460 based on a new mobo with DDR ram sounds logical.
BTW it will be a little bit strange if directly the mac evolution will go directly to the G5 without the step of the 7460.

If The Clock speed of the new chip go beyond 1 GHZ it will be a good new. A speed range between 1 ghz and 1,2 ghz with DDR ram will be a very big progress, the biggest since the introduction of the G3 (at the difference the G3 was in advance at this time ...).

[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:
<strong>Also, the G4's performance - especially the 7450's - is throttled back by the system bus, and by memory performance. Just like the 604's was in the 8600 and 9600. The 7460, fed with fast DDR RAM, would be a quantum leap better than the current models.

AltiVec performance in particular is bus-limited.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, and it's easy to see the difference of Performance between SDRAM and DDRAM if you look at the benchmarks comparing ATHLON with and without DDRAM.

You don't know who you are dealing with here. Be careful about your assumptions.

dorsal

so many clairvoyants :)

[quote]Originally posted by dorsal:
<strong>You don't know who you are dealing with here. Be careful about your assumptions.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It is hard to be careful about assumptions when there is no authority. Could the real dorsal please stand up?

Mandricard
AppleOutsider

Slacker, that is exactly what I heard. From apple to my source to me.

Jonathan, if

Dorsal M = real dorsal

please cancel the account of fake dorsal

An excellent question Belle. (S)he has every right to post and have an account. Although, it should be said that (small d) dorsal has added nothing of relevance to this thread, and the lone post that has been made seems intended to stir up controversy. Juvenile, but not offensive. Certainly not a banning transgression.

:)

G5 - The truth - AppleInsider

Dorsal is a common word so no need for banning accounts because of a name. it's not like I have a trademark on it... yet ;) . In the meantime I thought I''d enlighten on some of the details in question. Apple has been so kind as to send some advanced information on their hardware roadmaps. Normally this is so uncommon as to be unheard of! But there are such diverging hardware plans for the upcoming year(s) that it has been made necessary. the line of work we're in demands we have advance knowledge of these plans. They are of the magnitude of when they transitioned over to the PowerPC from 680X0 or the transition to PCI from NuBus. Soon (in a couple of Quarters) Apple's hardware will be radically different than what it is now.Some of the more obscure stuff are the methods of input, output, but some other details focus on SOC develpments from Motorola and Apple and to some extent, IBM. Future personal devices from Apple will have more of an intimate relationship with Apple's desktop hardware, and to a point an integral relationship. Future desktop systems (iMac type machines and modular machines) will have bundled gadgets suited for specific uses (for example: an iPod bundled with an iMac where the iPod would slide in a slot in the imac made for it) depending on the desktop system it comes with. Some of the examples cited indicated to me atleast, that Apple want's to expand it's core business from just consumer and professional graphics artists to business and media creation.

Some of the ideas are novel but not so revolutionary. But other ideas are simply innovative and original. It gives you confidence that Apple not only wants to live on the cutting edge but thrive there. Some of this will become apparent this upcoming expo. The next couple of years will be busy for us because new opportunities have been presented to us. Some will come to fruition soon hopefully.

Dorsal, you didn't give us ANY info in that last post. Anyone could have written it. Why don't you post something that will prove you have inside info? Give us some hard facts for once. Can you do that?

[quote]Originally posted by Dorsal M:
<strong>Future desktop systems (iMac type machines and modular machines) will have bundled gadgets suited for specific uses (for example: an iPod bundled with an iMac where the iPod would slide in a slot in the imac made for it) depending on the desktop system it comes with. </strong><hr></blockquote>

So.... if an iPod were to slide into its "mothership," what happens when one buys the next iWidget? It doesn't fit?

It seems that there would have to be some sort of form-factor convergence, or that this connector (basically, I am assuming firewire) would have to be extended from the machine, rather than having an 8-track-like place that they would join. It seems un-Apple to force such restrictions on its products when they are banking on such open standards as FireWire. I can see, perhaps, a firewire plug on the front of the machine. Are you suggesting a "dock" of sorts? that seems a bit odd.

Puzzled,

Mandricard
AppleOutsider

Macworld '02 prediction:

I believe the Apollo 1GHz+ G4 will be introduced at the Jan. '02 Macworld with DDR and maybe 1394B and/or USB 2.0.

I think the G5 will be released in March of '02 when Apple officially releases OS X.

I don't believe the G5 has floating/integer perf. 3X the P4 at the same clock speed. However, if true, it would be rather nice...

- Mark <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

If not MWSF, then MWNY. If March, then Apple announces it at MWSF.

It will be announced at MWSF, and you will all be both dissapointed and elated. Dissapointed because MHz won't be as high as some rumors suggest. Elated because performance will be staggering, compared to current Macs, and even to current Wintel boxes. Apple is about to leapfrog the competition.

[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>If not MWSF, then MWNY. If March, then Apple announces it at MWSF.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ahem. Seybold.

apple_otaku

[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
[QB]Does anyone think that G4's will find their way into consumer macs in 2002? Or that Altivec will find it's way into G3's?
<hr></blockquote>

I think that Steve guaranteed us Altivec in the consumer (iMac) line in January, when he said we could expect to see a SuperDrive in the iMac in 2002.

I think it will be a G4...although the idea of a G3 with Altivec added on is interesting, there's no marketing bang to this (at least not like upgrading the iMac from G3 to G4).

A G4 upgrade for the iMac line has basically been waiting for the G5 upgrade to the PowerMac line, because we can never have the iMac and PowerMac too close to each other (again for marketing and not technical reasons).

Whether we'll get a "real" G5 or a re-labeled and enhanced G4 remains to be seen.

[quote]
Some people have said that Apple should just scrap Altivec but I think that a strong SIMD unit is essential for any future looking chip.
<hr></blockquote>

Exactly... there is too much Altivec-optimized code in OS X, iTunes, iMovie, etc. for Apple to even consider abandoning it.

[quote]
However, with IBM not including an SIMD unit in the Sahara at least untill the Sahara II (not untill late 2002 at the earliest) and Apple's reluctance to rely on just Moto, it looks like Apollo belongs only to the 'power'macs for at least another year.
<hr></blockquote>

Unless Apollo magically becomes a "G5", as per some of the more reliable rumor sources lately.

[quote]
Whadda ya all think? One nice thing about the G5 rumors is that a slower G4 chip would then be available in large enough quantities for the rest of the line-up.
(snip)
Apple could put their marketing spin on G4 consumer macs: "Supercomputers for everyone!" or some such tag (better than the crap I came up with).
<hr></blockquote>

YUP :D

The last post by dorsal m seems quite odd to me. Apple releasing a roadmap like that? Including digital hub devices? I thought that what dorsal did...based on the old AI...was he worked for a company that concentrated primarily on PCI busses and motherboard architecture.

?!?!

K, I'm naive to the Mac convention schedule, when's Seinbold?

I know shows in Jan, March, July, and the Paris show in Aug...

The performance difference between consumer and pro will be achieved by different bus architecture and no ddr-ram. In my opinion there really may G4 iMacs in Jan.
Announcing the G5 at Seybold sounds comprehensible. Perhaps in combination with the rumored 19"racked 1U server. ;)

[quote]Originally posted by jethro:
<strong>[/b]
Apple would never, never send out information like Dorsal is suggesting. Partly that's because Apple itself doesn't know what it's going to do years in advance - a lot depends on how things shake out in the industry. Apple can't afford to be wrong anymore when it comes to this sort of design decision, so they'll have to trail the technology curve a bit.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's not uncommon to send out road maps about what a company 'plans' to do in the future. It's just not common for for Apple to do so, but they have done it. But lately on the software side they've been doing a lot of it, may be Steve does actually have something planned for us in the upcoming 24 months.

I would assume that since he uses annonomiser (SP) the user (Dorsal M) has set his account with the same user name and password. That is something only the real "Dorsal" could do.

[quote](iMac type machines and modular machines) will have bundled gadgets suited for specific uses (for example: an iPod bundled with an iMac where the iPod would slide in a slot in the imac made for it)[/QB]<hr></blockquote>

I've always thought a palm/visor cradle built-into a keyboard would be great. Allows the user to use the typwriter to key into the palm device DIRECTLY or into Palm Desktop or BOTH simultaneously. Perhaps even allow preferences to bring up the palm desktop when the device was put into the keyboard.

Similar thoughts could be used for iPod. Put in in the keyboard (which is the only thing guaranteed to be near the user, really.) and up pops iTunes. Can edit/type directly to iPod OR itunes, if you decide to change things around somewhat.

Many options along this line.

This is all major bullshit with Dorsal. No way in hell does he get a road map, and his last post is almost laughable.

Who cares what MHz the G5 come in at. As long as we have something over a GHz they better ramp the sucker up for production. If anything Apple can give us downclocked G5s in order to ensure they have a working supply to ship by Febuary/March.

Want real info? I suggest you listen if i ever get in touch with a Motorola employee I knew. Since I'm not under any NDA and if he shows up, perhaps I could get some hard core facts on the G5. I'm just sorry that I can no longer get in touch with him and give the AI community some info.

Anywayz, I think that post just confirms it's not Dorsal. Are you listening mods?

PS. i think the dorsal banning is a little silly (as is the name squatting) since no one really knows rumor from truth from identity to impersonation here anyway. just my two cents which, in rapidly declining Can$, soon won't amount to any cents at all.

This "Dorsal M"'s style of writing is totally different from the original Dorsal (the old AI).

He never used smilies, never joked around and hardly ever responded to anyone directly. He seemed much more serious and really knew a lot about computer architecture.

This seems fishy to me.

And Matsu, I explained the whole "why we think one dorsal is right and the other one isn't in a private message to you. Might want to check it.

Dorsal M is not the real Dorsal. Besides the silly fiction he's passing off as "inside info" in his last few posts, his writing style is completely different to Dorsal's.

Dorsal M posts = bunk

[quote]Originally posted by Daver:
<strong> his writing style is completely different to Dorsal's.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Is there an echo in here? ;)

Actually the writing style is very similiar (first person/first person plural, lots of fragmented sentences and misplaced modifiers, etc.) But the punctuation and abbreviations are a little different (this isn't too surprising since writing style usually develops early and doesn't change much while sentence mechanics are influenced by a lot of things).

This is getting ridiculous. Stop arguing about dorsal this and dorsal that. If you have issues with some of the things he says then argue that but dont waste everyone's time hear arguing whether he is who he says he is or not.

Junky,

I have no idea who's real or what but, I do know that Bad Flamingo was a nice try at building a new AI. It just didn't happen. I like the people who post there but, it's like waiting for water to boil ( not much action ). Also accepting a suggestion from you about rumors is like thinking the National Enquirer will give me insite into the real world. ;)

For you linguistic analysts, and just for old time's sake, here is some old Dorsal.

From March 2, 2001: [quote]Hello people. This has been an exciting time for us here, as last week we received some prototype PowerMacs with a few surprises. They came in new enclosers never before seen. These appear to be still a work in progress, but from the little I can say, they are spectacularly designed. Imagine a 17" Cinema display crossed with the present G4 tower case.

Motherboard.This machine is very similar to the older "UMA2" machine in our posession a while back. A basic rundown of motherboard features: a 300pin sawtooth CPU card connector, 3 DDR-SDRAM DIMM slots, 4 PCI slots in 33MHz configuration, modem slot pads and integrated Airport (Lucent), AGPx4 slot with NVIDIA GeForce2 MX chipset. Board is also slightly smaller in dimensions. ATA is still 66 in these units. System bus is still a double pumped 133MHz bus from memory controller to CPU and Memory controller to SDRAM. 133MHz bus to the peripheral controller chip. Firewire finally at 800Mbps but there is no USB 2 on any of our prototypes. Sound is the same as the "UMA1.5" systems.

[b]Processors.[b/]3 different processor cards. The first is a PPC 7440 with 256KB of L2 cache and no L3 cache. This one runs at 600MHz. The midrange one is a 7450 with 1MB of L3 cache and frequency is bumped to 733MHz. The last one is a dual processor: 2 x 733MHz. Speed is remarkable on all these units.

notes:
The DP unit crashed a few times so far. We think it may have heat issues, and not so much board issues.
All DDR SDRAM is certified and half the DIMMS we put in would not work in the motherboard. The board is much more stable because of this.
Very fast machines. Even the 7440 is very speedy compared to the 667MHz "UMA1.5" we have in here now.<hr></blockquote>
From March 5:
[quote]It's been a busy few days, and limited sleep coupled with weekend working hasn't helped. Here is some information to clear up some questions and/or misunderstandings. The OS we are running is OS 9.1 with an enabler for now. We also opted to install a build of OS X on the machines (4K60 I believe). Regarding firewire and PCI, the nature of our work involves testing equipment that relies on those interfaces, therefore they are very important to us. Also, I believe some of you do not understand how easy it is to implement ATA/100 versus ATA/66 on a chipset. This 'southbridge' is a sample and a work in progress. Some features have not been implemented. Also remember that firewire/ethernet and other higher bandwidth controllers are kept on the northbridge. This southbridge is almost feature exact to the present controller, save a few changes to the interface so the newer northbridge can work with it. Also, memory throughput reached about 630-ish MBps using internal memory testing utilities (we do not trust GuagePro with test systems). The case is like nothing you have ever seen. I mentioned the 17" ACD before only to illustrate this design is as different to other cases as the ACD is to other 17" monitors. Most of you will be pleasantly surprised and welcome the new case. Externally and internally it is meticulously detailed and attractive. It reminded me why I cose to work with Apple in the first place.<hr></blockquote>
March 8:
[quote]Bandwidth is being tested with internal software that is not commercial. This is for both PCI and memory. In fact, some of our engineers believe our software is not adapted or optimised for the new machine and they are retooling some of the code. I might have new numbers soon about memory performance. PCI performance is done with software that shows noticable performance gains over the present line of machines. Notice I said 'noticable' and not 'extra-ordinary'. Performance gains are typically 20-30MBps over the newer digital audio PowerMacs released this winter.

The case has support for the same amount of internal drives as before but they are located in different locations. External bays are the same but one is larger (I am being as general as possible, so make your own conclusions). Port placement is similar, yet slightly different than before. Think three. Creative internal speaker placement to say the least. And lastly, if you liked handles, be prepared to say bye to them.
Good day!<hr></blockquote>
March 12:
[quote]I don't have any information on what is 'UMA3', but what I have heard of the specs are that it will not be a typical chipset like we have today; a memory-PCI controller and peripheral controller. On UMA3 you will see something to the effect of a big PCI-X/peripheral controller connected via RapidIO to the processor which in turn will have a memory controller on board the die. Also there will be another controller just for the Ethernet and firewire on a seperate RapidIO port. This is the basic jist of future chipsets from Apple. But we won't see anything like this until the PPC 7500 is being used in Macs.<hr></blockquote>
May 2:
[quote]Interesting few days. I have had a chance to use 2 new prototypes from Apple. They are contained in the same plastics of the last prototypes but a different color. Where the last ones were a dark gray, these new ones are a much lighter gray with white Apple logos. There is one external 5.25 bay and one external 3.5 bay. Its hard to explain the case. It is shaped like the cube on its side. Imagine a clear piece of plastic shaped like an upside down U like you would see on a cheap PC exterior case. The top is perfectly flat, and it gently curves downward to the straight sides. Encased in it is a light silver box that fits perfectly inside the plexi-glass outer shell. There is only about 3 inches of clearance from the bottom though. In the front there is a flat front panel that covers the CDRW drive. The drive is a slot load and there is a grove cut into the plastic like the one on the top of the cube. Underneath there is an unoccupied rectangular piece of plastic in the shape of a 3.5 device for future expansion I imagine. Near the bottom of the front panel I see a stenciled white circle with a vertical line through it also like the cube (the power button). The reset and interrupt buttons are located in the back. At the bottom of the case, where the exposed 3 inches of the U shaped plastic and the silver box meet, the U shaped part curls inward and around in four 2-inch diameter circles that form feet. Ingenious! Between the curled feet that rest on the desk, the U shaped plastic is slightly off the desk by about a third of an inch so the edges do not make contact with the desk surface.
Here is a little ASCII diagram to show this: |__|--------|__|

From the side the whole thing looks like a perfect square. It is beautiful.
The rear of the machine has a full compliment of ports and slots for PCI and AGP expansion. The kicker is the way the machine opens up. On the back there is a familiar pop up handle like the cube (do you see the similarities?). This is the point where you pull the whole back out. This should be done when the system is on its side because the motherboard slides out on a rack and that rack has everything on it except for the power supply. There are 3 levels of pulling it out. The first will give you access to DIMM slots and PCI slots. The second, you will have to push a catch that enables a full pullout with out disconnecting the power supply cable. The third is pulling out the whole rack sans power supply.

All in all, it is a beautifully designed case, albeit a little limited in drive expansion. I will be using the machine tomorrow extensively and should detail some info on the inner workings of the unit in a couple days. <hr></blockquote>
[quote]Lets talk about hardware. 2 new prototypes are here now. 2 very different prototypes. Let me talk about the first. This one is a single processor UMA1.5 based system. Wait, thats not entirely true. I would call it a UMA1.7 machine. The reason I say this is because it is using a very large controller we dubbed Pangea2. It is a memory controller, PCI-X controller, firewire controller, Gb Ethernet controller, USB controller, boot ROM, audio, ATA/100 and AGP-Pro controller all on one die. Bus speed to the processor card is 266MHz. The Pangea2 chip is very close to the processor module. Motherboard is 33% smaller than the Digital Audio G4. It has 3 DIMM slots that take PC133 RAM. One note is that both IDE ports are ATA/100 now. Also the AGP slot is now Pro, with standard power out. The processor on this system is a Motorola 7450 runing at 933MHz. This system came equipped with a GeForce2MX card. Airport is still on a PC-card type card, but in a different position. The system is running MacOS X 10.0.2.

The second system has been called The Old Man. But it is anything but old. It contains the very same Pangea2 chip that the first system has. But instead of SDR-SDRAM, there are 3 PC2100 DDR-SDRAM slots. The rest of the motherboard is the same except that the graphics card is a GeForce3. Power supply on both machines look like a standard ATX power supply. The 2 processors on these machines are running at 800MHz each. This system is also running MacOS X 10.0.2.

More information will come as I get better acquainted with both of these machines.<hr></blockquote>
May 22: [quote]We have not been working on any new machines lately. All our testing and prototyping has been done on present machines bought from Apple (mostly 533MHz and 733MHz models). There is no timeline on when new machines will arrive. But they will come. Final hardware is very close now, if not in a couple weeks then soon after that. From meetings last week, it is my understanding that the feature set of Apple's summer machines are set and there should be product this summer. This only covers the professional line as I have no access to any of the consumer models here.

The standard feature set should include, a highly integrated controller (AGP, PCI, peripheral, memory, network and firewire) , dual channel DDR SDRAM memory running at 133MHz or 266MHz double-pumped, AGP4X (not Pro, Apple will continue to use their own power for AGP), PCI-X (4 slots running at 133MHz and 64bit) Airport slot for 54Mbit device, ATA/100, processors will be the 7440 for lower end and the 7450 for higher end, various dual processor configurations but they may be restricted to BTO, 667-1000MHz speeds, 800 and 933MHz speeds may be skipped this time and may reappear later on in the year (or early next year) as part of a speed bump, maximum RAM will be increased to 4GB, IEEE1394b will debut at 1600Mbit speeds, modem is optional, NVIDIA Graphics will be featured on all retail configurations except for server hardware, which will continue to feature ATI chipsets (most likely Rage128), and finally optical drives I am unsure. I assume they will continue with CDRW on the low end and possibly DVD/CDRW combination drives, like I've seen from Toshiba.

And finally, there will be a new case, but that is still being worked on. I was told yesterday morning that the case we had was an unlikely design, and I don't think Apple is pursuing anything like that now. To have this machine ship, they will probably have a redesigned version of El Capitan with improved drive bays. It was said that the outer shell will closely resemble El Capitan with out the protruding handle on top and more stable (wider) legs on the bottom and still retain the easy open side door. Also the 5.25 drive bays are higher on the case to make room for a second full sized drive bay. This should also mark the end to the two-tone design that resembles an ice cream sandwich. All the lines and surface area should flow into each other. I can't wait to see one up close.

This is all for now. I will try and keep in touch, but until then, good bye.<hr></blockquote>
Sorry for the long post, but I thought it would be interesting to see some of Dorsal's old posts again.

jimmac good to hear! i only have 256 ram (going to be buying another 512, for what $40? ;) ) now and a rage 128.. ugh. see my dilema? i dont want to spend the $300 or so on a graphics card when i could just save it for a G5 in a couple months.. then again if the GF3 Ti200's can be flashed for macs, id buy one of those. only $99 and as fast as an original GF3. :)

[quote]I believe (and have some evidence) that Dorsal M = the same person that posted at the old AI and nailed the MWSF PowerMacs.<hr></blockquote>
Does anyone have copies of these posts?

I just wanna say that if Jonathan says this is the real dorsal then it is and just leave it at that. I'm sick of people saying how he's a fake just because the writing style might be a drop different.

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>
Does anyone have copies of these posts?</strong><hr></blockquote>

See above, dearie. :)

Mandricard
AppleOutsider

[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Mandricard ]</p>

And those reposts show that Dorsal was way off back then, and way off today. Why do we fascinate ourselves with him?

If Dorsal throws out a dozen predictions...he's bound to get one of them close.

[quote]Originally posted by ap:
<strong>And as I remember MOSR released pretty accurate specs a week before MWSF as well. They had the Mhz completely right.

MOSR also had the powermacs for MWNY right.</strong><hr></blockquote>Nah, MOSR was about the only place that didn't get the MWSF 2001 PowerMacs right. Even CNet had the big '733 Mhz' leak, but MOSR was being more conservative.

They were also wrong on MWNY 2001 - AtAT had it right, and that's about it.

[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>Big D had the SF powermacs WHACKED before everywhere else though.

WHACKED.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So you did mean MWSF? Does anyone have copies of the pre-MWSF posts?

Well, I don't think there is much for Dorsal to tell us this time, all he tried to tell us in this thread was that there is no G5 coming out.

<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

Here is what I'm hoping for :) :

All have this advance DDRAM and 266 MHz bus thingy Dorsal has been talking about :) .

PowerPC G4s
1.2GHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 & 2MB L3 per processor
256MB SDRAM memory
Gigawire
80GB Ultra ATA drive
SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce2 MX w/TwinView
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem

(Optional Dual) 1.4GHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 & 2MB L3 per processor
512MB SDRAM memory
100GB Ultra ATA drive
Gigawire
SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce3 w/TwinView
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem

Dual 1.6GHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 & 2MB L3 per processor
512MB SDRAM memory
120GB Ultra ATA drive
SuperDrive
Gigawire
NVIDIA GeForce3 w/TwinView
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem

Each model $300 cheaper

Come on peeps give Dorsal (Dorsal M) a break... He is not trying to predict anything, he is just stating the specs of the test systems that Apple sends him (his company), and so far he's nailed some heavy stuff.

Just because Apple didn't release systems with the exact specs of the prototypes he got to play with doesn't mean he is full of crap.

I my self believe what he says because of all the stuff he has gotten right...

later,
Bliz
;)

[quote]
Here is what I'm hoping for :) :

All have this advance DDRAM and 266 MHz bus thingy Dorsal has been talking about :) .

PowerPC G4s
1.2GHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 & 2MB L3 per processor
256MB SDRAM memory
Gigawire
80GB Ultra ATA drive
SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce2 MX w/TwinView
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem

(Optional Dual) 1.4GHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 & 2MB L3 per processor
512MB SDRAM memory
100GB Ultra ATA drive
Gigawire
SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce3 w/TwinView
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem

Dual 1.6GHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 & 2MB L3 per processor
512MB SDRAM memory
120GB Ultra ATA drive
SuperDrive
Gigawire
NVIDIA GeForce3 w/TwinView
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem[/QB]<hr></blockquote>

Why's everyone talking about 'gigawire' when we don't have a clue what it is?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by catalyst:
[qb]

n/m

[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Nebrie ]</p>

Junkyard Dawg, shut up until you prove dorsal as no real info.

Eugene nailed it on the head!

No, Mike Breeden posted on xlr8yourmac.com an anonymous tip of SDRAM 733 MHz Power Macs and other announce products prior to MWSF 2001.

In fact, he was so skeptical, he took the news bit down for a while, then republished it as part of a tip from a C|Net article that posted the same stuff!

<a href="http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-4362156.html" target="_blank">http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-4362156.html</a>

Note the date, a week before MWSF, MHz range spot on: 466-733

"While the new drives may be announced, actual shipment may come later, sources indicated. The company has been evaluating Pioneer-manufactured DVD-rewritable drives, which can also record CDs."

"A slot-loading DVD drive, a first for Mac notebooks, will be integrated into the machine, as will the lithium polymer battery."

Okay, so they flubbed up with the Lithium-Polymer battery rumor, but they were right about everything else.

[ 11-28-2001: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>

Eugene, while I agree with your sarcastic post....I do think we can count on RapidIO as it is touted as a design feature of the G5.

One thing I would like to point out is the "north and south" bridge. Why is there no East/West bridge?? Must be all that Gangsta Rap East Coast, West Coast thang. :rolleyes:

Long time lurker, first time poster (here).

My .02 on the Dorsel M thread.

Comment 1:
After reading Dorsel's posts and the Register story, as well as the discussions here, it seems to me that the whole G5 discussion may be marketing smoke and mirrors. I know there are people who know chip design and are sure that a G5 must be 64bit and a 85xx processor, but isn't it possible that the "G5" to be announced is really a 7640 with substantial motherboard modifications, and that Marketing says "Well, that's good enough to call a G5". If the cpu comes in at 1.2, 1.4 and 1.6 ghz, isn't that what Dorsel M was predicting??

Comment 2:
Dorsel mentioned the future of connecting iPod-type devices, and suggested some kind of "docking" port. I agree with those that think a slot for an iPod is unlikely. But Dorsel did say "Future personal devices from Apple will have more of an intimate relationship with Apple's desktop hardware, and to a point an integral relationship." Could this be protents of some type of seemless, wireless integration of the OS with the iThingees? or am I hopelessly trying to read something into the tea leaves.

An aside: Sweet sig, Amorph. Have you checked out <a href="http://www.crackerweb.f9.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.crackerweb.f9.co.uk/</a> for all of you CVBgoodness?

[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:
<strong>Quit hatin on my nigga Dorsal yo.</strong><hr></blockquote>

:rolleyes:

Are you white by any chance?

[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:
<strong>North Bridge!! :D Oh snaps gotta be careful might get shot for saying that.

Aywayz, I'm siting here eating a piece of pizza from Papa John's right. My brother works at Papa Johns so he came over with a whole pepperoni pizza he got. He told me that earlier in the week he delivered to a guy, and the guy told him to come into the house for a minute while he got his wallet to pay for the pizza. He said the home was pretty nice and he noticed a new computer in the living room that he'd never seen before. He recognized it as a Mac though, and was curious. The guy seemed to be taking his time and yelled "Just a second I think I left it upstairs". So my brother goes over to the computer. The computer had Mac OS X on it so he went to the system profiler. The computer was listed as a 1 GHz G5 with a 400 MHz bus. The ram listed was 512 MB DDR. He noticed Gauge Pro on the machine and quickly opened it. Seemed to be a newer version, and listed the processor as a PowerPC 8500 (G5) and again the bus at 400 MHz. The Gauge Pro showed the memory as being DDR, but not what type. The drive inside the machine was the Pionner DVR-AO3 and the graphics were a GeForce 3. He then heard the man's voice behind him. The man went "Oh, that's top secret. I just got a hold of it this week. It's not in stores yet. Are you familiar with Macs?". My brother then asked him if this was indeed a G5 and the man told him yes and that Apple was getting ready for a major surprise come January. Then he asked the man how he received the machine, and the man said that he was John Rubenstein's college room mate!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why do you bullshit us like this? Quite creative though.

Let's get back on topic. Okay Dorsal M tell us what Gigawire is and