Ladies and Gents My iBook has died!!

What have you tried? Does it boot from a CD? Does an external monitor work? Have you tried reinstalling the OS?

A little more information would help.

FWIW, the battery for my iBook (500mhz) died about a week after my warranty ran out. Go figure.

Cheers
Scott

[ 03-15-2003: Message edited by: midwinter ]</p>

Well..what ibook do you have? (model, like one of the older clamshells, icebook??) Are you still under warranty? Has the book undergone any dropping at all? Just curiosity questions...

Not sure on any troubleshooting tips, but the 14" 700 MHz version was released in May 2002, so it's still under the one year warranty. You can call Apple, and as long as you can prove that it's a hardware defect (shouldn't be all that hard), they should do something about it.

You may want to try reinstalling Jaguar (I believe you're using it Fellowship, correct?), and do the archive-install option. See if that helps out any.

[quote]Originally posted by Xidius:
<strong>POOR FELLOWSHIP!!!

- Xidius</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thank you all for your feedback :) I am sad about this. Xidius I would chat with you but I am on my PC and I can't.

I will just take it to the apple store in my area tomorrow. I am not sure if anyone there will be able to help me with this on a Sunday but I will see.

I will let you all know how apple takes care of this situation.

Again thank you all

Fellowship

The freezing sounds like it's a bad motherboard. If there's a short in the MB, it can work for a bit and then it'll freeze. Take it to the store or call Apple. It'll be back before you know it.

Or you could just pray about it. ;)

[quote]Originally posted by Barto:
<strong>It's the MLB (motherboard).

If you've had it less than a year, take it to an Authorized Service Centre. It will be fixed under warranty. All you'll pay is for labour.

Barto</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't think you have to pay even labor costs if it breaks under warranty. That's why it's a warranty.

Yeesh... as if they weren't screwing international customers enough.

[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>

How, exactly, have you narrowed down his problem to the mobo?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, what could go bad?

1) Memory. If the memory was totally stuffed, the computer would beep at you. If it was mildly stuffed, you would expect it to partly start up. Or start up then crash at some point.

2) Hard Disk Drive. A corrupted portion of the HDD does not induce that kind of scrambling. The computer would simply not work at such an early stage at boot. I also imagine that FCiB has tried a CD.

3) CPU. If this was stuffed, it wouldn't turn on.

4) OS. Similar to HDD.

5) Power issue. When the graphics chip doesn't get enough power, you would expect mild corruption.

6) LCD. It's possible I guess, but I've never heard of major scrambling cause by the LCD.

-----

We are left with the MLB (in this case the graphics chip). It's something I personally see as well as hear about often. Sometimes graphics chips die. In fact too much of the time. It's a tad disturbing how CPUs can be so reliable, but GPUs are not. The chip is fried some how, and screwing up the data as it reaches the VRAM.

Barto

The symptoms sound very similar to what happened with my Cube when the video card died. The screen would scramble and get vertical lines, then go black. Apple will probably just replace the motherboard.

Fellowship, FWIW, I have had excellent experiences with Apple repairs. They will try to diagnose the problem over the phone with you, and then will send you a pre-paid box so you can send the iBook in for repair. I believe iBooks go to Houston.

Since it's past the three-month (software) phone support period, they will ask for a credit card number to charge you for the call (I think it's $45), but when they figure out it's a hardware problem they will wipe out the charge.

Apple's one year warranty includes replacement, labor, etc. They'll even send a prepaid carton overnight for you to send the computer back if you don't want to bring it to the Apple Store (or one isn't near you). If you go to the Apple Store they may also send it back if they can't fix it. You'll get it back within a week. :)

Fellowship, if the computer is less then a year old, you can still buy 2 more years of applecare for your machine

Fellowship, the problem, thankfully, doesn't sound too serious. Keep us informed though. I have had plenty of experience in talking to Apple Tech Support. ;)

The screen problems would suggest that system memory is not the problem, but then again, it can't be ruled out. The window server can use a lot of RAM, and if it tries to access a portion of bad RAM...

That's true, but 9 out of 10 times, what reaches the bad RAM will be an application, not the textures being rendered. At start up, there is no window server. BootX passes bitmap data to the native framebuffer. At such an early stage, with such stuffed memory, you would expect zilch to work.

The disk could have been corrupted where the video driver is written. Attempting to reinstall on a bad disk would probably cause a lock-up down the road.

Mac OS X is a strict as hell OS. When the video driver has a problem, it turns off the video.

This is where you're completely wrong. I had an old JoeCard G4 upgrade that was taller than most other upgrade cards. As a result the spring clip put too much pressure on the core. A very small portion of the corner actually chipped off, but it still booted up and ran just fine...for a while, until I did something specific that would hard-lock the machine.

That's quite amazing. Possible I guess, but amazing that it still partially worked, being the complex beast it is. But it wouldn't matter whether it was the GPU or the CPU, it's still the MLB (motherboard).

Imagine what whould happen to a desktop LCD if two of the twenty-four pins on a DVI connection were to cross...or if one or a couple were to short...

The it probably wouldn't work. A laptop LCD is different from a desktop LCD. The controlling circutry is on the MLB, and the signals go straight to the pixels. But you are right, it could be that cable.

We aren't left with anything. I'd let the Apple hardware techs diagnose it CPUs are every bit as unreliable as GPUs. They're very similar. Try overclocking sometime...you may think even a tiny overclock is reliable, but when you start doing complex math in you'll start getting rounding errors and such.

You obviously arn't a service technician yourself then if you belive that GPUs are as reliable as CPUs. And you obviously arn't a service technician if you believe tiny overclocks cause rounding errors. CPUs don't have a set clock speed. There is no reason there should be errors when they are overclocked a bit (how much depends on the CPU). You well get errors when you overclock it past what it can take *cough*Pentium 3 1.13GHz*cough*, but I just don't see what the hell you're arguing here.

Maybe FCiB should listen to people who have technical experience in diagnosing and fixing Macs.

Barto

[quote]Originally posted by Towel:
<strong>Fellowship, I had exactly the same thing happen to my iBook about a month ago. It was six months old at the time, and the problem presented itself *precisely* as you described it. After two minutes on the phone with an Apple tech they had me ship it back for a motherboard replacement. I had it back in my hands on the seventh day after my call (three of which were a holiday weekend) and it's worked flawlessly since ([knock knock] on wood). Good service, good outcome, but I'll be buying extended AppleCare. I wonder if Apple's been able to find or fix the flaw that causes this. The boards at info.apple.discussions.com are nearly chock full of people reporting identical problems in new iBooks.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So in your case it was the motherboard?

Also if it is not too hard for you to find could you post a link to the boards on the apple site you mention?

Thank you,

Fellowship

[ 03-17-2003: Message edited by: FellowshipChurch iBook ]</p>

<a href="http://discussions.info.apple.com" target="_blank">Link.</a>

Click through to the iBook page, then check out the Dual USB forums. People variously post these problems under Display and Usage.

<a href="http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?128@32.1499atL8iTj.17@.3bc01f89" target="_blank">A sample thread.</a>

It was my motherboard; after that (along with the CD-ROM, which had been a little unbalanced) was replaced by Apple service, it works great again. Most people with a similar problem report the motherboard being replaced.

[quote]
You obviously arn't a service technician yourself then if you belive that GPUs are as reliable as CPUs. And you obviously arn't a service technician if you believe tiny overclocks cause rounding errors. CPUs don't have a set clock speed. There is no reason there should be errors when they are overclocked a bit (how much depends on the CPU). You well get errors when you overclock it past what it can take *cough*Pentium 3 1.13GHz*cough*, but I just don't see what the hell you're arguing here.<hr></blockquote>

I have plenty of experience in QA for both hardware and software. I'm sure most engineers will admit that CPUs today suffer from much strict tolerances out of necessity. We're talking 2 and 3 GHz parts vs <500 MHz parts. With the notable exception of the new GeForce FX 5800 Ultra, the chips themselves are quite happily cooled by meager heatsink/fan combinations. My Radeon 8500 runs fine with a broken fan, for example. Try running an Athlon XP without a fan on even the largest Thermalright SLK-900 heatsink. The chips from ATi and nVidia themselves are very reliable. It's the rest of the components that are pushing the limits. Remember, these cards are running FAST DDR memory and even DDR-2 memory. They're also more frequently user installed. A zillion things can be attrtibuted to high failure rates. Take the ATi cards for example... the lower end "Built by ATi" cards are manufactured by Sapphire (based in Hong Kong) with fabs in China. Those cards fail more often than their high-end counterparts which are manufactured in Markham, Ontario, Canada. Take cheap motherboards like FICs and ECSs and compare them to Tyan and Asus. Which will fail more often? You're mistaking entire graphics cards for the individual chips.

And this really has nothing to do with the original topic. You were too quick to assume it's simply a motherboard issue. It very well could be, but that's because most of the hardware is built-in.

And yes, my P4 2.4B starts reporting rounding errors in Prime95 with a meager overclock to 2.78 GHz.

[quote]Originally posted by Barto:
<strong>380MHz isn't a tiny overclock.

And the incidence of failed graphics systems v failed CPU systems in Macs is probably about 15:1. Maybe Apple makes 1/2 a crappy motherboard, and 1/2 a good motherboard. But I doubt it.

CPUs have to get it right 100% of the time. Graphics chips don't. I wouldn't mind betting that's the reason graphics chips fail more often.

Barto</strong><hr></blockquote>

380 MHz for a 2.4B is a meager overclock for the typical OC'er. Most people are quite happy running theirs at ~3 GHz. More proof you don't know what you're talking about. And they're perfectly fine with the fact that Prime95 will just fail to run completely, or that RC5 results will be inaccurate or whatever. As long as the core applications important to them work within acceptable parameters. Graphics chips also have to work 100% of the time.

Maybe it's the fact that the graphics subsystems change all the time. Apple's ICs change all the time. Apple also has to make the same choices of components like RAM, capacitors, resistors, etc. Not all of these components are equal...Witness the electrolyte formula scandal that was brought to the public recently.

So again, I'm going to have to beat into your head that the graphics subsystem is not the graphics chip. The reliability problems do not lie with the chips themselves.

[ 03-17-2003: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>

:rolleyes:

FCiB, let's say you are stupid, and you are. Think about it for a second. Then read the link in the middle of this post.

Laptops in general are more prone to failure due to their heavily integrated and mobile nature. Not only will they be more susceptible to environmental hazards, they're more likely to be a hassle to fix too.

After 2 years, my sister's VAIO laptop's left-side shift key failed. It also wouldn't charge any batteries. Has she shrugged off Sony's forever? No.

It goes with the territory.

They just ran a story on this. You must have missed it. Laptops reportedly have a 1% chance of failure for a given month. That's 12% after one year, 36% after three years. <a href="http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7B613D2CD4%2D57E7%2D495F%2D87BD%2D 9068D0ECA1D4%7D&siteid=mktw" target="_blank">Read this</a> before you do anything silly.

"The industry is averaging, for good notebooks, a failure rate of 1 percent per month,"-- or a 36 percent in a three-year period, said Formichelli, who helped develop IBM's (IBM: news, chart, profile) Think Pad. "If you get under that, you're stretching the laws of physics, yet that's so much better than five years ago in the notebook business, when we were at 4 percent a month.

You go with another laptop from any other manufacturer and you'll run into the same phenomenon. ThinkPads have reputations for being indestructible, and here tthey are admitting they get 1%/month failure rates.

Apple (AAPL: news, chart, profile), which had the marginally best, three-year repair rating from Consumer Reports, was the most guarded about what contributes to its failure rate.

The rule of thumb is you definitely buy AppleCare for laptops, though it probbaly isn't necessary for desktops. 1-year warranties are the standard for Gateway, Sony, IBM and HP.

[ 03-17-2003: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>

What's disturbing about this is that it hits *new* iBooks, not well-used iBooks. Normal wear and tear is one thing, and laptops certainly have shorter lifespands than desktops. But I haven't heard anyone mention a 1-2 year old iBook getting this bug.

Still, I'm not leaving Apple. Yes, it sucks to pay a poor-design tax (AppleCare), but I've more than gotten my money's worth out of OSX and my iBook already. I've been asking it to do stuff that otherwise might call for a dedicated workstation-server combo with expensive eproprietary software - but open source and my little iBook are handling it just fine. And this might sound a little pathetic, but it's just so damn functional when it's working that I might not mind it breaking every six months (but hoping it never does again).

A follow up...

As of today I believe I have decided to never again make another apple purchase. I talked to apple directly today over the phone and I wish to communicate how that process went.

Apple believes that they do nothing wrong. When you talk with one of their employees they are good at reading a script of how apple does no wrong.

I asked for 2 years of AppleCare at no cost as I explained to them that I have only 3 months left on the iBook and I have read countless reports of people having the same problem I had after as few as 3 months etc. Apple tried to tell me they have no problems on record with the iBook and the "logic board" I call it the Motherboard. I told them I have read on the Apple website of many with problems with the iBook with this exact issue of the MB and they said that is all rumor. I said "Rumor"?? it is on your own site... He said.. Well many don't like apple and will post false reports.

Ladies and gents... Apple does not trust their own customers... They dismiss any complaints of apple products as "rumors". Sickening... I said I have discussed this issue on a discussion board and come across many if not most of the iBook users who admit to the same exact problem with their iBooks. Apple agains said "Apple does not address rumors"

So Apple does not believe the iBook has a real problem. That I am a rare case. I asked... I said "If I am a rare case and you have confidense in your product why then can not apple give me 2 years of AppleCare for no cost?

"We are not set up to do that" he said.

"We treat all of our customers the same and we do not make exceptions".

The bottom line is this:

I am upset at apple for not simply giving me 2 years of AppleCare on this defective product of theirs. I can stomache if the thing is rendered useless after 3 years of life. It is a high price to pay but I can accept that. But to have a defective product with only 3 months left under warrenty after paying a premium for an apple laptop I can not stomach. If it breaks one more time within days of the expiration of the one year warrenty then I am left high and dry. I think that is shameful for a company who charges such a premium for their product that they can not provide service on or stand behind their defective products. If it was a rare case I would not worry about a future failure. As it is common I simply wish for the applecare service for 2 additional years. I bought many devices around this system. iPod, Air Port, etc. and after such an investment for Apple to leave me with 3 months left on an expensive entry level laptop is shameful. It is clear apple has a serious problem with the design of the iBook. My experience with my iBook is a very common problem with apple. They do not admit to such.

Where this leaves me..

While just weeks ago I started to entertain the idea of getting a a new tower from Apple with a 23 inch Flat panel display, I now in light of my iBook breaking will have to see how Apple will or will not take care of me. I may not spend a single cent on Apple EVER again.

If I have to leave apple I will let everyone know what happened with me. Word of mouth will be negative from my testimony.

After spending what I have on my apple toys including the iPod and Airport etc. I hope apple will take care of me by providing the AppleCare for 2 more years.

If they don't I will sell the iBook and be done with apple.

Fellowship

Let me get this right, you asked Apple to give you 2 years AppleCare for free, and you're genuinely disappointed they didn't say yes?

With all due respect, if you aren't happy with its performance or possible future reliability, can I suggest you simply sell the iBook and move on. It's no big deal one way or the other. I'm sure you'll survive without it, and I'm sure Apple won't care one jot. I know computers are expensive, Apple computers particularly so, but paying a high price or 'premium' doesn't guarantee anything.

As for If I have to leave apple I will let everyone know what happened with me, that's fair enough, but don't you think you've got a little growing up to do?

Fellowship, give yourself a few days to cool down. I understand your frustration, but you have to be realistic, too. Asking for free AppleCare was perfectly reasonable - I have heard of people for whom it worked. But, you still can't be suprised they said "No". They certainly can't say that there is a general issue with iBook motherboards, because that would mean a recall of all iBooks - disasterous for Apple. And, as frustrating as it is to be one of the affected owners, it looks like this is still a low-probability event, affecting probably on the order 1% of all iBooks.

In the end, will you really be happier and more productive if you swear off all things Apple? Given the steal of a deal that is an iBook, is it so terrible to just go ahead and pay the peice-of-mind tax?

Originally posted by Towel
In the end, will you really be happier and more productive if you swear off all things Apple? Given the steal of a deal that is an iBook, is it so terrible to just go ahead and pay the peice-of-mind tax?

It is so terrible. I will NEVER pay them money for their design flaws.. PERIOD

Is it worth it to sell it? YES read what David from another thread had to say:

Originally posted by David M
iBook600
Eleven months in the dreaded flakey backlight problem started. Sent it in. (Very nice phone people by the way).

- 1st time came back with drive wiped, no fixes
- 2nd time came back with replaced reed switch. Worked fine for almost 24 hours.
- 3rd time came back with new MB and a new 3 month warrenty. Phew!

Four months later (and no warrenty left) it started again. Backlight randomly fades, blacks, lights, flickers etc. Bad reed switch for sure. Since I don't feel like sinking ~$400 at the moment (out of work) I'm just living with it and adding new words to my vocabulary. :(

Fellowship, this doesn't have anything to do with Gore being appointed to the board, does it?

PEBCAK

Originally posted by mrmister
I can't even honestly say I have much sympathy--you sound like you are wound up over other people's stories you've read about on message boards--the fact is that your iBook got screwed up, you took it in, they fixed it under warranty and returned it. I don't see in any way how that entitles you to free Applecare, free bagels, free lox--free anything. There are people on this board and others who have *suffered*--look at Fran!--and sometimes Apple does right in the end, sometimes not. I'm having trouble understanding what you are upset over--if the new motherboard fails in 7-8 months, as you suspect it will, you'll need Applecare. OTOH, it is entirely likely that it will *not* fail--so don't get Applecare.

Given the attitude you are expressing here, which is rather different than your usual vibe, I suspect you aren't getting very far because you seem abrasive & your arguement doesn't really add up. If Apple had kept you iBook for long periods, or scratched it horribly, or something weird had happened...then there is more room for discussion.

They are actually doing their job--on these forums, where most write in only to complain, THAT IS RARE.

Isn't your iBook now functioning?

mm

ps--let me know if you want me to buy that base station for $50.

;)

I will sell the iBook when I get it back.

I will sell it on Ebay and feel sorry for who ever ends up with it.

I will keep my other apple items such as iPod which is the sole reason I went with Apple in the first place and I will actually buy another apple computer. Which one is a good question.

I will not fork over $249 for the AppleCare when that can be applied to my new computer.

I will shut up about my iBook but I just have to wonder what the actual repair rate is on the iBooks.

If I did not like Apple I would have never gone with apple in the first place. I am simply upset that apple in the case of the current iBooks have a product that lasts only 1 year due to warrenty.

Without the 1 year warrenty it would have only lasted 9 months. With others only 3 or 6 months.

That is my complaint.

So I will sell the iBook on Ebay.. take the procedes and apply to some other apple computer (unknown at this time which one) as to continue to use my iPod etc.

Fellowship

Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
I do not have any growing up to do my friend. I give testimony good or bad on all things. I tip when I go out to eat as I see fit. If I get good service I tip good. If I get bad service I do not tip at all. If I get superior service I tip accordingly.

Same with word of mouth. When I say I will let everyone know I am not talking about here on AI. I am talking about those who ask me about my iBook from this day forward.

The reason I am pissed is that I spent over $2,000 on the entire array of products from Apple. They tell me I am a rare case. I ask them " If I am such a rare case as you say why then can not Apple afford to warrenty the iBook for 2 more years.

I have since my last posting found that indeed Apple will not give any help to me so I have decided to sell the iBook.

I am finished with apple... Not because I have an apple product that broke as we all know any make of Laptop can break. I am finished with apple because they claim there is no problem with the iBooks.

I brought up that I have spoken with many who have had the same issue with their iBook and Apple says well I am sorry Apple has no reported issue with the iBook.

This means apple plays ignorant to honest feedback from their customers.

I told Apple of the many cases I read about on the "Apple" website and they said.. that is considered rumor by apple.

Let me say it is no rumor that I am finished with this arrogant company.

Fellowship

I guess two fanatical devotions are one too many for you to handle.

Originally posted by BR
Are you going to be truthful about the history of problems you claim these iBooks have, including your own, when listing it on eBay?

Actually BR you are just the guy I had in mind to sell it to.

LOL :lol:

Fellows

Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Actually BR you are just the guy I had in mind to sell it to.

LOL :lol:

Fellows
How much are you asking for?

Originally posted by BR
I guess two fanatical devotions are one too many for you to handle.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Even companies heralded for their service options like Dell don't offer 'free' 3-year warranties. By default, if you order a machine on Dell.com, they automatically choose the 3-year option for you. You can downconfigure to cheaper option however...

fellowship, hate to say it but you're acting...oddly on this one.

do you really think that whatever was wrong won't get fixed?

sure, if there are 10,000 repairs there are some that won't work. know who's going to bitch about their repair? those 10 people who's repairs didn't work. what's going to happen? you're going to read about 10 out of 10 people having terrible experiences.

good experiences don't get people worked up enough to bother telling everyone about it.

if you're selling this iBook because you think it's going to break again, i think you're being foolish. if you're selling it because you didn't get 2 free years of applecare, you're really being foolish. what exactly are you unhappy about? your machine is covered. something broke. they fix it for free. at what point in there did you get screwed over?

as a side note, ever since people have started buying laptops, i have told EVERYONE, EVER, NO MATTER WHAT BRAND, to buy a 3 year warrenty.

why?

laptops break. they always have, they always will, for a wide variety of reasons.

please post a link to your e-bay auction when you put it up though, i'd love to get my hands on this iBook. as far as i'm concerned, it will be in close to mint condition. i would have 0 qualms about buying it.

at my job i research and purchase more computers and computer hardware in a month than most people do in a lifetime. (murbot excluded)

this is how it works, no matter what brand you buy. if you buy another brand and it happens to not break, that's great. but your product has the same 1% failure rate per month as that apple did. trust me, our department's iBooks and Powerbooks go in for repairs less often than the Dells that are bought, and are more likely to get fixed the first time they're sent in.

Originally posted by jesperas
Fellowship, your iBook broke under its 1 year warranty. You have every right to be upset. But what you're entitled to is a free repair. If you want 2 additional years of Applecare, you need to pay for it--just like everyone else does.

I hate to bring up the tired car analogy...but if your car requires a major repair toward the end of its warranty period which the dealer fixes for free, are you again going to demand they extend your warranty for free? And, when they refuse, are you again going to sell your car, swearing never to buy from that auto manufacturer again?
Well, Fellowship would.

Originally posted by iDebaser
AND cancelled at anytime during the 2 yrs after for a prorated refund of your $250

2 years?
cancelled?

please explain...

cool, shouldn't i be able to keep it for a year (90 days at the least) w/o being penalized for returning it?

haha im talking about applecare, not the computer...
and i would think that because i can't actually USE apple care until a year after my purchase anyway (90 days on telephone support)

Originally posted by jesperas
Fellowship, your iBook broke under its 1 year warranty. You have every right to be upset. But what you're entitled to is a free repair. If you want 2 additional years of Applecare, you need to pay for it--just like everyone else does.

I hate to bring up the tired car analogy...but if your car requires a major repair toward the end of its warranty period which the dealer fixes for free, are you again going to demand they extend your warranty for free? And, when they refuse, are you again going to sell your car, swearing never to buy from that auto manufacturer again?

There is a simple difference.

Every Car I have had has lasted far beyond the warrenty period without a hitch.

If for example if I had my Dodge Truck and I read reports of many others having their transmission go out at 10,000 miles I would be unhappy with Dodge. If the warrenty period was for let's say 12,000 miles and it is well known that Dodge has a design problem with the transmission at on average 10,000 miles give or take failure happens I think I would look at the competition.

With a laptop if you would read other cases of iBook owners you will find that some have the motherboard go out after as little as 3 months, some 6 months, some like mine 9 months.

I EXPECT A LAPTOP TO LAST MORE THAN 3, 6, or 9 months.

Forget what the warrenty is an Apple Laptop should last at least three years without a MB failure. Is that so much to ask. I bought the thing with that expectation and I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation.

Back to my Dodge Truck I have a 10 year 70,000 mile warrenty on it. That is a great warrenty for a vehicle.

For apple a one year warrenty on the iBook is only good if you plan on keeping and using the iBook for only one year due to the fact the things are prone to fail prior to that.

Shame on Apple for having a short lived product that they do not recall and fix the problem that is the issue here.

Shame on the arrogant company who does no wrong.

I asked apple what caused the (logicboard) Motherboard to fail. Apple: "We don't know"

Heat related? did it crack? Apple: "we don't know"

I ask apple has apple changed anything with the design of the MB they are putting in at this point. "We don't know but Apple has no reported problems with the iBook"

No reported problems... Take your head out of the sand apple.

Apple doesn't. They offer a 12-month warranty, knowing that the laws of probability tell them that the MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure) on their components means that only a relatively small proportion of their computers are likely to be affected because a worker went out to lunch. But hardware problems after 12 months means customers get angry. Very angry. Angry enough to buy a Dell and never come back to Apple, because Dell assure them that they'll come 'round to their place, pick up their Wintel slab, and fix it for them in record time.

Why is this Important?

Quality is important to Apple as the company seeks to differentiate itself from its Wintel competitors in a number of ways. When people pay high prices for equipment, they don't merely expect a superior user experience, but superior quality as well. To draw the automotive analogy again: no matter how good Jaguars' ride, and how good the leather smelt, nobody bought them while they were built by British Leyland in the 1970s and early '80s in a place the company labelled "Large Car Plant # 2". When the quality went up, the buyers flocked back. To put it another way, you wouldn't buy a new BMW with bits that fell off it, now would you?.

Link (http://www.insanely-great.com/features/011130.html)

Maybe if apple wishes they can have more lawsuits against them

Link (http://www.apple-power-adapter-complaints.com/)

Too bad apple just can't live up to the reputation they once had and take care of their customers.

Fellowship

Originally posted by Paul
haha im talking about applecare, not the computer...
and i would think that because i can't actually USE apple care until a year after my purchase anyway (90 days on telephone support)

Maryland won tonight so i'm in a good mood...

the point is no matter how reasonable your assumption sounds , please READ THE FINE PRINT
Apple clearly explains their limits on everything...

there is a diagnostic disc included w/ AppleCare that you can use from day 1, it's not merely a longer warranty...lots of fine print, go to Apple's site all your questions will be answered.

Well, all I can gather from Fellowships last post, it seems to me someone is just P*ssed off and not thinking straight(it happens). he uses the car analogy.. well, he said he would read up before buying the truck and if he had read there were problems, he wouldn't get one.. WELL, did you do the same with the Ibook? Most Ibooks do NOT have this problem, do you realize how many they sold? what would happen if you did buy the dodge, and had it for lets say 2 years, and put 71000 on it, and the engine blew.. Well, guess what, you are passed the warranty on it, and you would be screwed. Now, if it had 69000 miles on it, and they replaced the engine, would you expect them to extent the warranty again for another 70000 miles??

I spend all my days dealing with these sorts of situations: complex electro-mechanical systems that have at least a thousand mechanical components to go wrong (usually diagnosable at a component level), and a good few million electronic components to go wrong (rarely diagnosable below board level).

I've been watching this thread, and I have to say, Fellowship, I think you're over-reacting. Shit happens: components fail. I've seen thousand-dollar circuit boards fail within 15 minutes of installation, despite the fact that I know we have a good few hundred thousand identical boards that have worked perfectly for years.

Do I cry off?

Do I say "oh, no, these boards are all crap, I can't possibly deal with this"?

Do I immediately recommend that the device be condemned because this one failure immediately means it will definitely suffer the same problem in the future?

No.

I accept that the risk of failure is exponentially increased by the complexity of the system you're dealing with, and that the odds aren't any different with a new component.

By necessity, computer circuit boards are highly complex, and nature of the requirement of a laptop's motherboard to occupy as little space as possible, it pushes the boundaries harder in terms of component density and heat dissipation. The motherboard in my Cube has probably twice the area of that in my PowerBook and has the benefit of much greater cooling, a daughtercard for the processor and a separate graphics card. iBooks ain't much different.

For every "my computer broke" story there are millions of "my computer works perfectly, so I don't have to bitch about it" equivalents that you just won't hear.

Get it foxed, see how it goes: if you get the same failure in 9 months time, fair enough, but getting hysterical over one failure is beyond the pale. And getting upset retrospectively over insurance (which is what Applecare really is)... please.

"Forget what the warrenty is an Apple Laptop should last at least three years without a MB failure. Is that so much to ask."

Yes, actually, it is.

"I bought the thing with that expectation and I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation."

But it is. That may change in a better world, in the future, but that ain't how it is now.

I thought you brushed away your unreasonable attitudes toward Apple, Fellowship, I guess I was wrong.

I am frankly amazed how so many modern computers dont break. They are such complex beasts. I believe a G4 motherboard is a 14 layer board, that's crazy. Now I imagine the laptops motherboard have the same complexites and all compressed to under one inch. Scary!

Zoom back 15 years to the Mac Plus, they is only one layer per side boards with just DIP chips! Ofcoarse they go on forever, they're too dumb to break! :D

So it could be anything on the motherboard, Fellowship. A burnt out voltage regulator, a burnt out transistor, a burnt out diode or whatever are on the boards. These components are small and it doesnt take much for them to break if you think about it.

Anyhow,

"I spend all my days dealing with these sorts of situations: complex electro-mechanical systems that have at least a thousand mechanical components to go wrong (usually diagnosable at a component level), and a good few million electronic components to go wrong (rarely diagnosable below board level)."


What do you work on, a peice of the international space station?!

in my experience if they can't fix it they give you a brand new one.

at least that's been my experience.

Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Update :no:

Apple has told me the computer has failed after the "repair" I may never get it back and if I do it may never work correctly...

You may want to re-word that, since, it was in warranty wasn' it? if so, the way you worded it makes it sound like Apple aint gonna send one back, and if they do, oh well, it wont work correctly.. again you need to relax, take some chill pills. :smokey:

Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Apple has told me the computer has failed after the "repair" I may never get it back and if I do it may never work correctly...

:lol: dude give me a break, what you think their just not gonna send you a computer back. Its not like its some guy named Jimmie in a barn fixing computers. this is their business, they make and fix computers. you should be happy it failed at apple not at your house.

Actually, I think his reasoning can easily be explained...

Withdrawel, like drugs users, when the drugs are gone, they go looney! his ibook is down and no mac to use, he has simpley gone insane. When Apple finally gets him a new 'stash' of mac goodness. he may return to normal, if it takes too long though the symptoms may go away.
:smokey:

Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Update :no:

Apple has told me the computer has failed after the "repair" I may never get it back and if I do it may never work correctly...

Haven't you missed a so they're sending me a brand new replacement off the end?

If I were you I'd insist they do, on the basis you need a reliable computer and soon. I'm sure you could get a good price for your original iBook, but an even better one for a brand new machine (unopened). Just say it was an unwanted present and sell it at a hundred dollars or so below the cost price. It sounds to me as if your luck may be in.

You guys are a laugh sometimes. The funny part now is that I really don't miss the iBook at this point. My Sony Vaio is doing a great job.

The latest update is that my iBook is not back today which was the date promised back at the latest. I asked when I could expect to have it back and they simply "just don't know".

I know that if I were a Dell user in this thread saying the same things about a Dell Laptop you all would have a different reply to my postings. I think I would see replies such as " See you should have known to get an Apple" and perhaps "PC's Suck" "Get an Apple"

I am glad you all are so unbiased.

:lol:

Fellows

Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
You guys are a laugh sometimes. The funny part now is that I really don't miss the iBook at this point. My Sony Vaio is doing a great job.

Fellows

See, his addication is wearing off now..But I think it is funny that the guy loved his machine so much, he had it in his screen name, suddenly it breaks, and all of the sudden its a POS.. I hope you arent that way with God.
:p ;)

Note to self:

Keep eye on thread.

:D

Originally posted by The General
See, his addication is wearing off now..But I think it is funny that the guy loved his machine so much, he had it in his screen name, suddenly it breaks, and all of the sudden its a POS.. I hope you arent that way with God.
:p ;)

LOL:lol:

Just when I thought I had seen it all! I laughed out loud when I read this.

Number one: God never breaks...

Number two: I would never have feelings towards God that I have towards Apple computer.

I hope that was helpful...

back to the comic value of the latest postings I want to thank you all for a nice laugh that I needed ;)

Fellows

Originally posted by The General
Actually that is why I posted it. :) for humor only. I know God never breaks, but some people who love him do turn around and hate em when things dont go there way.. :\

You are right about that.. Sad when folks do such things. I want things to go God's way.

Fellows

Originally posted by murbot
http://homepage.mac.com/murbot/.Pictures/AI/GOD/no_god.jpg

Sweet jesus, keep this stuff in AO or it goes in my box.

8)

Err... I'd be mad too if my iBook got scratched up bad like that. That's too bad Dale. :\

Well, I think I may have found the guilty party as far as the scratches go.

http://homepage.mac.com/fellowship/.Pictures/Me%20and%20Dad/DSC02074.JPG

:D

Originally posted by alcimedes
to get rid of the blinking question mark.

go to your system preferences folder. they select "startup disk" and they pick the OSX 10.2.x folder.

i would guess they had your iBook booting off another drive before, your machine is doing a breif search for a bootable drive when that question mark is blinking. selecting the startup folder will remove this.

Thanks much alcimedes, issue resolved!

Fellowship

Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
I have not had my iBook even a year I believe. It has died! my iBook was my first ever Apple Purchase and I have spent a bit of money around the system. Air Port etc. It has Died. Last night I was using it as usual and the screen started to jumble and the OS locked up completely. Everything froze. Then the screen would go black and back on scrambled and would continue to scramble as I watched it. I wonder if the Motherboard has a fracture in it? or if the Video card is dead? It is still dead. Today I tried to use it and the screen jumbled up again and the system froze. I guess it is time to go to apple. What are your suggestions?

I just can not believe the thing is broke after such a short period of time. It really has me wondering about the "quality" of apple.

I also forget the warranty period on the iBook with apple do any of you know? I know I did not buy applecare and now I am concerned about my situation.

Any suggestions? I am on my PC asking you...

Fellowship

[ 03-15-2003: Message edited by: FellowshipChurch iBook ]</p>

My school issued about 300 iBooks to the art students here. I work part time at the school's helpdesk. I have seen at least 6 failures like that in the last 8 months, and several of my co-workers have also seen that happen a lot. A guy I work with at my other job also had that happen to his iBook after owning it for just a few months.

This problem is definitely common on at least the last two revisions of the iBook.