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Roth Music Cocoon MC4 valve amp with iPod dock and remote - reviewed

Roth MC4

We all like good looking, well made gadgets. We own iPods, after all. But at the end of the day, what counts in any audio equipment is how it improves our listening experience. We chose iPods, after all. And to me, and Im sure to you, performance matters more than looks.

So when it comes to amps and speakers what matters most to me is what they make my music sound like.

I dont care much for the pointless, sterile arguments about the pros and cons of valve amplifiers, and about whether or not compressed music files can or cant benefit. I just plug my iPod in and listen, and if it sounds better, then it gets the tick in the box, and if it doesnt then it doesnt.

Ive been using a Fatman iTube for some months, now, after first encountering one in my local John Lewis Department Store. Plugging my iPod in, even in a cavernous store, the sound was lovely and different enough from the sound produced by the demo Bose Companions, Sounddocks, Jamo i300s and iPod Stereo that passers by stopped and marvelled. The difference really is that stark and music really does sound that good.

In the home, the Fatman provides great quality, room-filling sound that sounds better than I ever thought music from an iPod could and which does so from a small unit with a tiny footprint. The iTube is fairly fragile (its packed with vacuum tubes) and relies on mains power, so its not entirely portable, in the strictest sense of the term. But for a person going back and forth to and from college every term, it would be ideal, Id have thought, and a number of famous rock bands (including Coldplay and the Who) use them on tour for their hotel rooms.

And though it is made in China the Fatman is marketed and backed by TL Audio, a thoroughly British company based in Letchworth who have an awesome reputation in the pro audio industry, for whom the Fatman brand is used for consumer level products. Not Made in England, strictly speaking but a purchase that benefits a British firm, and a product backed by a UK company, with all that infers for post sales support.

And that was the cheapest, lowest end Fatman iTube so goodness knows what the more powerful Carbon edition sounds like, or the more expensive versions, I thought.

And now I have a point of comparison, in the shape of the Roth Music Cocoon MC4.

You can buy the Fatman with or without packed-in speakers (for 299 without speakers, and 399 with, though John Lewis are selling the unit with speakers for just 299 at the moment, and you can find the Fatman for 219 without speakers on Amazon).

By comparison the Roth is sold 'as is' for 395 (Amazon), with power adaptor and cables and a remote, but with no speakers, and without even a list of speaker recommendations, beyond the guidance that you need speakers with an impedence of 8 ohms or greater.

This will deter the lazy, (and perhaps the cost conscious, to whom spending 500 in one hit can sometimes be easier than spending 400 + 100 separately which requires two purchasing decisions) which is a shame, since (to my astonishment, as a Fatman convert and fan) the MC4 outperforms the Fatman handsomely.

The Music Cocoon experience begins with opening the box. In just the same way that Apple go to town on making their packaging classy, so too do the boys at Roth. Opening up the package you come to a top layer of expanded foam which contains the instruction book, the various adaptors for the power adpaptor/transformer (UK/US/European) the 3-5-mm jack lead, and the speaker cables (with banana clips), as well as a pair of white cotton gloves (you wouldnt want to finger-mark it, after all!) and the remote, to which we will return.

The MC4 itself, and the power brick occupy a bottom layer of expanded foam. Everything was well and securely packaged, and everything felt as though quality was the driving factor behind selection. The power adpaptor/transformer brick was a perfect example of this, since it is large, heavy and its metal chassis is screwed (not riveted) together.

Everything about the MC4 screams quality and attention to detail, and everything feels wonderful. In the flesh, the unit feels and looks so much better than you'd guess from photos. The perspex valve guard arrangement, for example, is especially nice in real life. This thing really is a tactile joy, and it's the ultimate 'big boy's toy' to have on your desk.

Since no speakers were included, I hooked the MC4 up to a number of alternatives that we had in the house, settling on a pair of Tannoy Fusion 1s as being the closest match to the speakers that ship with the rival Fatman, which we also own. It also seemed appropriate to mate a Valve amp from a UK firm with speakers from a UK firm.

I suspect that the results would be lifted by using better modern speakers. It would be interesting to team the iTube and the MC4 with Fatmans Fatboys, perhaps, or with the uber trendy, uber funky-looking spherical speakers by Anthony Gallo, which might complement the MC4s space age styling very nicely.

Setting up was simple and straightforward, with two banana clips from each speaker, a nicely engineered lead from the transformer (with a press to release clip) with video out, and with 3.5-mm and standard stereo jacks for CD players or non-docking iPods (or even for other MP3 players, perish the thought).

Turning the unit on requires you to press and hold the volume button (the left hand of two machined metal rotary dials), until the valves light up, when it can be released. Source (3.5 mm jack, labelled MP3, stereo cables, labelled CD, or iPod dock) can be selected using the right hand rotary dial.

Alternatively, control can be exercised via the remote control.

The remote deserves a mini review all of its own, since it looks great, and is solidly constructed of metal with a rubber-like matt black layer of paint on the bottom. But mine shipped with a dead battery (CR2032) requiring me to unscrew the battery compartment with the provided Phillips screwdriver and insert a new one.

The remote does almost everything you might want it to, and feels expensive and substantial in the hand especially by comparison with the flimsy and plasticky unit that ships with the Fatman iTube. The (metal) buttons require a good firm push, and the thing is beautifully shaped in the hand. But actually, I found the layout of the buttons counter-intuitive and while you can access all iPod menus from a distance at which the iPods screen is unreadable, navigating up and down a menu requires a series of pushes on the up and down arrows, as there seems to be no way of holding down a button in order to scroll through a list more quickly.

Nor was I able to find an easy way of scrolling through a long song to reach a particular time point.

But all of that is peripheral, because what matters is the music, man!

And valves do seem to me to make a really significant difference, even on compressed 192 kbps MP3 files. I tried some uncompressed AIFF files, too, and they sounded even more fantastic allowing the iPod to reproduce genuinely CD quality music.

To my ears, the Roth MC4 sounded noticeably better than the Fatman iTube did though I have not yet had a chance to get my wife to double blind test me on this, so that is hardly a scientific conclusion. That has also been the opinion of all six people whove heard the machine in situ in my house so far. The iTube sounds marginally but noticeably louder, however.

This is, of course, comparing the 13 watt-per-channel MC4 against the baseline 13 watt-per-channel iTube, rather than against the more powerful 25 watt-per-channel iTube Carbon Edition, which I hope to sample at a later date.

I would have to say that either the iTube or the MC4 are great pieces of kit, and can be safely recommended. If money is not an objection, and if you already have (or want the fun of finding) appropriate speakers, or if desktop/tabletop real estate is limited (the Roth has a much smaller footprint than the iTube) then Id have to recommend the MC4, but the iTube is a more than worthy alternative if money is tight.

And either blows the usual iPod docking/speaker combinations out of the water (we could compare it directly against the Jamo i300 and the Bose Companion 3, and the iPod Hi Fi), delivering music at a quality that you would not believe. Eat your heart out Bose, this is how music is meant to sound!

Pics to follow!
[8689 byte] By [Jackonicko] at [2007-11-11 19:59:35]
# 1 Re: Roth Music Cocoon MC4 valve amp with iPod dock and remote - reviewed
Jackonicko

Glad to see you are keeping up with the high end stuff, love reading your reviews. I'm sure the Roth CM4 sounds excellent as all tube amps sound, but as I have argued before, from the limited information available on the Roth site, this is a hybrid amp. Tube preamp (12AX7/12AU7)/ solid state output(MOS FET). The main cost of a true tube amp is the output transformer, with a solid state output, half of the cost is avoided. This is another $100 worth of parts offered assembled for $750.
Been checking Amazon but can't find your 219 pound Fatman, all I can find is the 370 pound model, original price. At 219 it is almost worth it.
What is really scary is the upcoming CM8 mentioned on the Roth site. A true tube amp, class A 211's, 35 watts per channel for only 2000 pounds. This may actually be worth the 370 pounds, but 2K is a joke. Can't wait to read your review of this one.

kurtisb
http://kurtisb.awardspace.com/
kurtisb at 2007-11-15 15:12:38 >
# 2 Re: Roth Music Cocoon MC4 valve amp with iPod dock and remote - reviewed
Kurtis B,

The thing is that I don't care whether it's a hybrid. Nor how much the components cost. Opening the box and clipping on the banana clips is about as far as I want to go, so building my own tube amp for $47.50 isn't relevant to me.

All that interests me is how it sounds (and this sounds lovely to my ears) and whether it sounds sufficiently 'better' than its competitors to justify the price tag.

This is a unit that is not appreciably outside the price bracket of much of the kit you can see in John Lewis, and in my mind, it's worth the extra price. The big unanswered question for me is how it would compare to the Carbon iTube.

I've seen the press releases on the MC8 - I don't see myself spending 2000 to sample it, nor do I see Roth loaning me one. Nor is it really relevant to folk here on iLounge, I guess.

And it's not half as pretty!
Jackonicko at 2007-11-15 15:13:40 >
# 3 Re: Roth Music Cocoon MC4 valve amp with iPod dock and remote - reviewed
Roth MC 8

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Jackonicko/MC-8_CH.jpg
Jackonicko at 2007-11-15 15:14:45 >
# 4 Re: Roth Music Cocoon MC4 valve amp with iPod dock and remote - reviewed
and the 219 Fatman is at:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fatman-itube-home-docking-station/dp/B000J3OKFY/ref=pd_ybh_4/203-5629318-8953529?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=195ZQMQ4YT8Y6HC8V98F&pf_rd_t=1501&pf_rd_p=138755991&pf_rd_i=ybh
Jackonicko at 2007-11-15 15:15:40 >
# 5 Re: Roth Music Cocoon MC4 valve amp with iPod dock and remote - reviewed
As promised:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Jackonicko/IMG_2977.jpg

The box.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Jackonicko/IMG_2979.jpg

Opening up.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Jackonicko/IMG_2980.jpg

Gloves, remote and iPod dock inserts

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Jackonicko/IMG_2982.jpg

Banana cables, power lead from transformer to MC 4 and UK, Euro and US plugs
Jackonicko at 2007-11-15 15:16:49 >
# 6 Re: Roth Music Cocoon MC4 valve amp with iPod dock and remote - reviewed
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Jackonicko/IMG_2983.jpg

Transformer

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Jackonicko/IMG_2988.jpg

Pretty (?) in pink
Jackonicko at 2007-11-15 15:17:48 >
# 7 Re: Roth Music Cocoon MC4 valve amp with iPod dock and remote - reviewed
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Jackonicko/IMG_2989.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Jackonicko/IMG_2991.jpg
Jackonicko at 2007-11-15 15:18:52 >
# 8 Re: Roth Music Cocoon MC4 valve amp with iPod dock and remote - reviewed
I've been thinking about the $100 worth of parts accusation, Kurtis.

Even if it were true, you'd have to cost in your time in designing and assembling a unit, and to be fair in machining solid aluminium to make it look and feel this good.

And I don't think that it is true. The transformer and remote alone are $100 dollars worth, then you have all the cables, clips, valves, etc.

Of course if you had the knowledge and engineering skills (and I know you have) you could do it cheaper, but you'd have a real job making something as attractive, and the price difference wouldn't take account of your time.
Jackonicko at 2007-11-15 15:19:44 >
# 9 Re: Roth Music Cocoon MC4 valve amp with iPod dock and remote - reviewed
You are right to a degree. My $100 statement only included the electronic parts. The base of the case appears to be a stamped piece, add $5. The top aluminum plate would take two minutes on a CNC mill, add $15, and another $10 for the acrylic top. The remote has a few dollars in parts and I would say about $10 for the very nice looking shell. The external power supply and solid state output negate the cost of costly valve output transformers as seen as the two outside large blocks on the back of the CM8, still this item could cost $30 to $50 depending on volume. And that is the key, volume, what you expect/ predict ... marketing...to sell. Engineering/ design cost must be spread over the production run, and certainly not a linear equation. If you are expecting to sell one to five units (like a Space Shuttle) your engineering cost could be 75% per unit. If you are expecting to sell 5000 units (maybe the Roth Cocoon MC4) your engineering cost could be 5% per unit. If you are expecting to sell 500,000 units (maybe an iPod) your engineering cost could be 1% per unit. The assembly cost depend on where it is assembled. I would estimate one hour of semi-skilled labor, $20 in the UK, $2 in China. From the spec's on the Roth website, which are very sketchy, the CM4 does not use a DAC, which adds about $50 to the Fatman. The valves/ tubes (12AX/AU 7) used are two of the most successful and widely used tubes ever designed and are among a handful that are still made in China for $2 a piece. No specs on the solid state output except "MOS FET" so I would expect it is one of the popular amps used in car stereo, at 13 watts it would be around $5 max.
So, in total this may cost $200 to produce. I would consider buying it at $400- 500, but not at $750.

As for jobs, I did start my career in audio, but now it is just a hobby/ passion. My position for the last 27 years has more to due with saving lives than making your ears tingle. How ever I will retire in a few years and maybe I will design some thing and bring it to market. If this happens I will surely send you one to review Jackonicko.

Buy the way the Fatman is still 370 on Amazon in the USA.
kurtisb at 2007-11-15 15:20:54 >
# 10 Re: Roth Music Cocoon MC4 valve amp with iPod dock and remote - reviewed
Maybe those gloves cost $250.......... no I forgot..... I can buy them for $5
kurtisb at 2007-11-15 15:21:55 >
# 11 Re: Roth Music Cocoon MC4 valve amp with iPod dock and remote - reviewed
I think they just have the marketing wrong. They think they are planning to sell 1K units at $500 profit = $500K. I think if the price was $400, they would blow away the Bose and Apple units and could sell 100K at $150 profit = $15M
kurtisb at 2007-11-15 15:22:53 >
# 12 Re: Roth Music Cocoon MC4 valve amp with iPod dock and remote - reviewed
I don't think that the margin is likely to be anything like as big as that, unfortunately.

And there's marketing, packaging, and all the rest to consider, while the company is also obviously investing heavily in other new products.

I think that it's interesting that Roth have got the price of a new, clean sheet of paper design down to within a gnat's of the price of the Fatman (a modified and improved version of an existing amp).

The unit does blow Bose, Jamo and Apple competitors out of the water, but even at a MUCH lower price, I'm not sure that Roth of Reading would be able to overcome the marketing power and customer inertia/brand loyalty/fear of the unknown to really sell "HUGE" numbers.

While not including 'packed in' speakers will hurt them in the wider iPod market, I'm sure.

At the end of the day, it's about value for money of the final assembled product - not component cost alone. The iPod's component costs are negligible, yet the price is high - and with the volume sold, Apple can afford to be generous with the margins.
Jackonicko at 2007-11-15 15:23:51 >
# 13 Re: Roth Music Cocoon MC4 valve amp with iPod dock and remote - reviewed
At the root of the misunderstanding about price may be the one element which you don't have experience of, Kurtis.

Once built, you need to get your Valve Amp from the factory to the customer - and that's where the big money starts to be spent!

It goes something like this:

1. Factory ship to UK (for EU shipments) or to USA, Australia, etc.,
2. Roth (say) ships to a distributor, who pays for freight, duty if applicable and import vat.
3. They send sales people out to dealers and try to convince them to range the product in their store, they market the product locally and handle service.

So, the distributor has to pay his staff so he needs to make a profit margin to do this.

And the dealer has to make a margin for the same reasons…………..but guess what……..his margin is greater than that of the distributor, which is greater than Roth's, which is greater than the factory’s.

It gets even more complicated when one considers that just to get shelf space in certain store groups, one has to pay them, in advance, anything up to 3,000 PER STORE.

You have to sell a lot of MC4s to recoup 3,000 from profit!

So if you want exposure, the upfront costs are mind boggling.

(And then if they don’t sell the product they have 100% rights of return for a full refund and even the shipping back has to be covered by the distributor/brand - and Roth (say) doesn't get its 3,000 back, either!

Then there’s the service and warranty costs, marketing, advertising, etc.

Of course, if you drop the price you will sell more but elasticity of demand is a complex subject, and you need to be certain of recouping the lost revenue if you do drop the price, and many think that this only really fully applies if you have a ‘name’ brand.

Some companies who have been trading for years and have huge finance can cut out the distributor part of the chain and can have their own offices with their own people and kind of write off the cost, but if a smaller company tries to do this it can be a disaster – there have been loads of British companies who have done this in the USA and gone bankrupt a year later.

Distribution is a tricky and specialised game, and entails carrying a great deal of overhead. It's often better (especially for a newcomer) to use a specialised distributor who is already 'in' the trade.

But that all costs money, and it all increases the cost, exponentially, from the cost of components and manufacturing.

It’s a tough old world.
Jackonicko at 2007-11-15 15:24:56 >
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