Aiff
I`ve been reading some articles about the ipod on the stereophile website and it seems to be viewed that the iPod can be used as a digital source of `reasonable` quality if tracks are in the AIFF format.
Can someone tell me a bit about this format - I don`t know anything about it at all.
Thanks
# 1 Re: Aiff
It's like WAV compression, in other words, perfect quality like. But it is huge, although it is smaller than WAV. At least I'm pretty sure of that, I myself have never tried it (I'm a windows user and it's common on macs)
# 2 Re: Aiff
aiff is just the mac equvalent of WAV - uncompressed (although still digital so is in some ways i guess) cd quality audio. an aiff file would be exactly the same size file as a wav file.
Bec
Becan at 2007-11-15 17:41:16 >

# 3 Re: Aiff
Originally posted by Shinjitsu Ai
I`ve been reading some articles about the ipod on the stereophile website and it seems to be viewed that the iPod can be used as a digital source of `reasonable` quality if tracks are in the AIFF format.
Can someone tell me a bit about this format - I don`t know anything about it at all.
Thanks
Google is your friend:
The "Audio Interchange File Format" was developed by Apple for storage of sound in the data fork of Macintosh files. It has been adopted as a standard audio format by the OMFI (Open Media Format Interchange) group for cross-platform media exchange, which includes Silicon Graphics, Avid Technology and others.
Mac-based professional digital audio recording systems and multimedia applications such as Macromedia Director, Adobe Premiere and Movie Player allow importing and exporting of AIFF files. Using this format, audio can be stored as mono or stereo, 16-bit or 8-bit, and at a wide range of sample rates. (See Low- resolution AIFF, WAV and QuickTime.)
High resolution AIFF files sound good, but they are LARGE! A 30-second stereo 16-bit, 44kHz (CD-quality) AIF file would be 5.4 MB.
AndyH at 2007-11-15 17:42:14 >

# 4 Re: Aiff
AIFF is indeed the same as WAV... it's uncompressed music ripped straight off your CD. So whatever space it takes up on your CD, it'll take up that same space in AIFF files. Typical 128kbps MP3 compression is about a 1:12 ratio in compression.. so.. size is a consideration.
However, in a hi-fi set-up, you can hear the difference between compressed music and uncompressed. So the first criterium for iPod to be a high-end source (or at least mid-end) is to have only AIFF files on it.
The 2nd criterium is that you have to use iPod's line-out instead of its headphone output. You can get the line-out either by using the mini-jack from the back of the dock, or you can use a dock adaptor cable that has a line-out, such as the Sik Imp.
Reason being, is if you're going to be passing the signal out from the iPod into another receiver/amplifier of some sort, you need a clean signal that comes from the DAC (Digital-Analog Conversion) stage of the iPod. You don't want it to come from the headphone output, because headphone output has an "amp" behind it as well. You don't want to pass an already altered signal into another receiver to have it re-amplified again.
Satisfying these two criteriums, iPod is indeed a pretty reliable source that compares favorably against many desktop CD players. I would say even up to a $300 range (and these are dedicated, big, desktop players).
Lastly... You should choose AIFF over WAV for one reason (they're both available via iTunes for either Mac or Windows), iTunes actually store a pretty secretive metadata in the AIFF files. This is the same as ID3 tags for MP3 files. So that means when you move that AIFF file around (back-up, or moving directories), the song title, artists and such information stays with the file. Ripping to WAV files renders no metadata being attached to the file, so the as soon as you move the file to a different directory, you lose all your song information. If you ever have to restore from a back-up of WAV files, you have to re-enter all the song information manually.
Technically there's no sound differences between WAV and AIFF whatsoever.
# 5 Re: Aiff
I didn?t know that about an existing output line taken from dock port. Obviously, it?s much better than the earphones output option. In fact, one thing I missed on the iPod was just that. By the way, the audio signal from the dock is analog or digital (better!)?
I also want to use uncompressed formats like AIFF or WAV. Both are the same in quality, but because AIFF is a Mac native format I think maybe the iPod can manage them in a much more fine way than WAV.
I?ve been thinking about all that thing of the info tags, which I though it could be a lack with these two formats. But I know that sound editor tools like Sound Forge let you to put that kind of info (artist, album, year, etc.) into a WAV or AIFF file. So, I guess when you move the file, the info keeps attached within.
A question I have is if by using the iPod with any of both formats that consumes the battery much more rapidly than with the compressed ones. By logic, it would be so.
# 6 Re: Aiff
It is an analog level line-out.. it makes more sense than a digital out, if you're only going to have one. If you need to take this line-out into a headphone amp, most of them do not have a built-in DAC. If you want to take it to a home receiver, home receiver's DAC's usually aren't all that great, not much better than iPod's built-in DAC actually. You have to have some pretty high-end receiver to get a good DAC. External DAC is expensive as well.
With the release of iTunes 4.5 and iPod firmware 2.2.. you can finally get lossless compression on iPod as well. I've just finished converting all the AIFF files I had into Apple Lossless format (which seems like a MPEG4 standard, wonder if other software will adopt it as well).
Using uncompressed format saves some processing power, since you don't have to "decode" it, but it does increase hard drive access, since you have to read more often from the hard drive into RAM. You see a 20% drop in battery life in general, but not too bad.
I'll have to see if the lossless format fares better (less hard drive access, but maybe more processor-intensive) in some real world test as the week goes on...
# 7 Re: Aiff
Here's a way to think about aiff, and for that matter wav, files. Take the bits straight off your CD and just put a header on it that says 'this is an audio file that's 44k stereo 16 bit.' Both the aiff on a Mac and wav on a PC (although both platforms can play the other's "native" format) are just a header then the bits from the CD. That's why the stereophile website promoted using aiff format. Its just like putting the CD directly onto the iPod. If you want to go with a propriatary format, you can use the new apple lossless codec and save about 50% of the space and get the same thing.
I just wish apple had gone with FLAC instead of rolling their own lossless format. Seems to me they could have wrapped a DRM around it just like they've done with mp4 (aac) and then I'd be able to play all the FLAC files I already have.
# 8 Re: Aiff
Why would you want them to wrap a DRM around it? In fact, AAC files you rip from your CD's doesn't have any DRM. The only DRM is those music purchased from iTMS. DRM is inconvenient and annoying.
I wonder if Apple's lossless format (which seems to be a MPEG4 standard, actually) has less impact on battery life than FLAC. Currently the only portable player supporting FLAC is the Rio Karma. Using FLAC with it decreases its rated 16 hour playing down to 10... a huge decrease. I think a part of that has to do with the decoding taxation on the processor.
So far, I noticed very little difference (if any) using ALS against AIFF on my iPod in terms of battery consumption...
# 9 Re: Aiff
I wonder if Apple's lossless format (which seems to be a MPEG4 standard, actually) has less impact on battery life than FLAC.
Its not. Hence the name Apple Lossless and not MPEG4 Lossless. MPEG4 lossless is another format entirely. Battery loss is due to reading the HUGE files from the hardisk, not the decoder. Decoder power use is pretty negligable.
# 10 Re: Aiff
Its not. Hence the name Apple Lossless and not MPEG4 Lossless. MPEG4 lossless is another format entirely. Battery loss is due to reading the HUGE files from the hardisk, not the decoder. Decoder power use is pretty negligable.
http://www.nue.tu-berlin.de/forschung/projekte/lossless/mpeg4als.html
This page talks of an eerily similar codec, doesn't it? I wouldn't be surprised that Apple Lossless is indeed MPEG4 lossless, after all, AAC is the just another MPEG4 compression spec. It also makes sense from a hardware point of view that since you can already decode MPEG4 in hardware, it's easy to implement MPEG4 lossless in hardware as well. Going to FLAC would require a new processor.
Also, people on Head-Fi has conducted testing, processor drain might not be much, but there is one. People who used to get about 7 and half hour of playing time using WAV and AIFF are now getting about 6 hours of playing time using Apple Lossless.
# 11 Re: Aiff
.flac > .aiff are both common in the world of concert bootlegs.
However, .aiff, unlike .flac, can be played in itunes, and or, your ipod.
So, if bootlegs are something you?re into, .aiff can be a good friend indeed.
mokes at 2007-11-15 17:50:19 >

# 12 Re: Aiff
Originally posted by lindrone
http://www.nue.tu-berlin.de/forschung/projekte/lossless/mpeg4als.html
This page talks of an eerily similar codec, doesn't it? I wouldn't be surprised that Apple Lossless is indeed MPEG4 lossless, after all, AAC is the just another MPEG4 compression spec. It also makes sense from a hardware point of view that since you can already decode MPEG4 in hardware, it's easy to implement MPEG4 lossless in hardware as well. Going to FLAC would require a new processor.
Also, people on Head-Fi has conducted testing, processor drain might not be much, but there is one. People who used to get about 7 and half hour of playing time using WAV and AIFF are now getting about 6 hours of playing time using Apple Lossless.
Once again the are not the same format.
# 13 Re: Aiff
Once again the are not the same format.
How do you know, and what's your evidence... just about everyone who has seen it and discussed it has thought that it's MPEG4 lossless... even the file extension remains "m4a" which is "mpeg-4 audio"...
Not to say that you're wrong, but where did you come up with the conclusion that they're definitely not the same?