My new iAudio X5, bye iPod mini

I've always been impressed by iAudio's players. Truth to be told, if Rio or Apple don't deliver by the end of the year, I may very well buy an X5.

Good to hear you like it.

I find it odd that you felt the need to come to an iPod forum and tell us all about your new non-iPod "toy".

Well, if someone posts about a non-iPod MP3 Player, you might get a few complaints ;)

Very nice (and small) looking player, and the USB host port as well as FLAC support is just icing on the cake. Enjoy it, it seems like a great alternative DAP.

-Dan

I think the reason it isnt getting flamed is because, though I hate to say it the X5 is better than the iPod (hides).
If right now I had the choice between the 4G iPod and the X5, I would take the X5.

It's funny how cowon puts so much effort into updating the firmware for the x5 (what like 3-4 updates in the first 2 months?) and has put like no effort into advertizing their product. Looks like they only expect to make a profit from their korean base.

Originally posted by baggss
I find it odd that you felt the need to come to an iPod forum and tell us all about your new non-iPod "toy".

I don't think its odd at all... :p

Originally posted by baggss
I find it odd that you felt the need to come to an iPod forum and tell us all about your new non-iPod "toy".

I find it odd that you speak of "iPod" like it is a political party like the Republicans and dems.

iPod is just another mp3 player just like my toaster oven, it bakes good toast... nothing to go gaw-gaw over.

If something better comes along like play better music or toast my bread better, I'm open to enjoy it all.

iPod lounge is just a forum devoted to ipod users, which I am, formerly known as... :p

For me, I have yet to find an MP3 Player that comes CLOSE to the iPod. Most of the other players are all the same anyways. :)

Originally posted by traderx25
Another cool thing is the little joystick thing actually quite simple and easy to use, especially when it is in your pocket.

Sorry, but this joke was too good to pass up:

So, you like playing with the little joystick in your pocket?

:D

Originally posted by MikeM
Sorry, but this joke was too good to pass up:

So, you like playing with the little joystick in your pocket?

:D

ROFL! Sick man!:D

Originally posted by thesire
Why is it when I read this thread it is the so called more "experienced" people on this forum that are flaming other DAPs and taking shots at other users. Im talking about the people who have a relativly high post count and have nothing intellegent to say besides that the iPod is better than everything else out there. While the "noobs" (people with lower post counts) can make so intelligent points without flaming or taking shots at other users.

Personally I like my iPod an I think its a great music player. But I can realize that there are other music players who are just as good, and in other ways better than the iPod.

Please, lets just behave. Its already starting to get out of hand. There is no reason for people to bash other DAPs just because they are not iPods.

Very well put message there. I have noticed that alot of late here too. I mean if I remember correctly the Lounge is for any other items that are not iPod related, and the rest of the forums are for Ipod related items. So I feel that this person posting here has every right to do so. I maybe out of line by saying that..but that's just the way I feel. Can't we all just get along?

Yes I can see your point Doug, the thing I don't understand is why he was questioned in the first place though. He clearly is a Ipod mini user that has recently changed over to a new product. He never once bashed Ipod's..just said he had found something new that he enjoyed more. Forums I have always been under the understanding of are for people to post ideas and questions for help and to help others with items that they have recently purchased or come into owning. The way the question was asked sounded like a accusation more than a question to me. I will not say anymore about this but I just wanted to say that my understanding is that we are here to have fun talking about our love of Ipods and to help new owners with questions they may have. I am sorry if there was problems in the past, but I don't feel like those reasons are any reason for veterans to take it out on new members here.

Ok maybe I was a little too quick to make acusations. I apoligize to people I may have offended.

baggss, I dont agree with you on your last statement. Many topics posted in the lounge have absouloutly nothing to do with iPods. He was simply making a statement. I think he was doing us a favour by bringing to our attention that there is competion to Apple.

Originally posted by thesire
Why is it when I read this thread it is the so called more "experienced" people on this forum that are flaming other DAPs and taking shots at other users. Im talking about the people who have a relativly high post count and have nothing intellegent to say besides that the iPod is better than everything else out there. While the "noobs" (people with lower post counts) can make so intelligent points without flaming or taking shots at other users.

Personally I like my iPod an I think its a great music player. But I can realize that there are other music players who are just as good, and in other ways better than the iPod.

Please, lets just behave. Its already starting to get out of hand. There is no reason for people to bash other DAPs just because they are not iPods.

If you took a minute to check, baggss isn't bashing the player, just the motive for posting in iPodlounge, about a competitor, when he has no history here............

I think I may be purchasing one of these tomorrow in preparation for my big vacation to Europe. The features it offers blow me away; USB Host port, flac/ogg support, FM Radio (scheduable too), built in voice recording, "nearly gapless", great audio output, line-in/out. I want the 30GB model X5L (35 hours of battery), but can't find it available anywhere in Canada. I've emailed Cowon and asked if they could locate a reseller for me. If not I may simply order the standard 30GB X5 (14 hours of batter) instead.

-Dan

Originally posted by CanaWinPod
35 Hours? Now that's a huge advantage over any iPod currently on the market. Apple better be watching this or they could lose some market share.
Personally, I don't like the look of this, at least I don't think it looks better than the iPod. But the features are very impressive. Don't know if I'm tempted to buy one yet, but I sure would like to take one for a spin.

The test was done using a 64kbps Mp3, I believe, so it would probably be around 30 hours or so, still impressive. Hopefully I'll be able to snag it.

-Dan

Originally posted by jwc110869
If you took a minute to check, baggss isn't bashing the player, just the motive for posting in iPodlounge, about a competitor, when he has no history here............

I made that assumption as well.

Originally posted by traderx25 (http://forums.ipodlounge.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=122597)
As a long time iPod user, from the 1st 5GB version to the 2nd gen non-wheel 20GB version and I also have the 15GB Gen 3 version.

For a long time, I've waited and wished for Apple to fix some of the issues and updated the iPod to more advanced or modern features. I also had 3 different MD players and find that they have features that the iPod doesn't have, they are much more advanced in terms of controls but they are small in terms of capacity and not so ease of use.

We have to make a distinction between the likes of traderx25 who spend a little time and effort into making a constructive post about the merits of other DAPs compared to the iPod, and the likes of ipodsucks who come here with the sole intention of trolling.

As Mike said, we welcome the former, and the latter will find the door slamming shut on his troll-like arse...

I don't think apple has to worry that much. The dap market is already pretty saturated, and most people won't be looking to upgrade and ipod they have had for 1 year. Also, apple has the name, and is currently spearheading a huge marketing campaign for the ipod(at least in nyc). Almost no one knows about the x5(regular people).

Originally posted by MikeM
Okay. We've been through this before. People are welcome to make non-trolling posts about non-iPods here, regardless if they have any value or not.

baggss, you need to let this stuff go at this point. You've tried unsucessfully to get folks to regret posting about their non-iPods here for a few years now.

To those who post about other players, be aware of what you are doingand don't be surprised when you get some negative reactions.

There's going to be some clearer policies from now on regarding this subject so no one will be surprised when their posts are removed from threads like this one.

I have no real issues with the iAudio, I have issues with a person who comes here with a grand total of 6 posts, has been a member for 3 days and tells us all how much better player X is than the iPod. If it came from a more senior member, I'd read it with a bit more interest. If it came from Adam, I would slam it harder (;) ). At least I know Adams motivation and interests.

I simply have to question the motivation of a newbie, no matter how polite the presentation, who apparently comes here to tell us that there is a better product and the iPod is not as good blah, blah, blah....

Originally posted by Nitr0
what do you expect people to say "Yeah man, I'm switching, did you see all the cool features this thing has like th...."


But in this case it did happen! ;)

Cowon emailed me and located the X5L 30GB model (35 hours of battery life) that is available to Canada. I may jump on it tonight..

-Dan

Originally posted by baggss
Lets be honest Dan, you are not an "Average" user.

I don't see the big deal in a 35 hour battery life myself. Unless you are flying from Toronto to Brisbane direct, it's not going to mean anything in real time use. I could see the OGG and FLAC support as big points for you though.

The 35 hours were a nice bonus, and only costs an extra $30 so I figure it would be worth it. The features definitely are impressive:

USB Host, which I can use to dump files on my Nikon's memory card onto the 30GB HDD (useful since I'm not going to be bringing my laptop with me on the trip), "nearly gapless", FM Radio as another that I had always wanted on the iPod for some shows that I listen to, and FLAC support is definitely big deal for me.

-Dan

I probably shouldn't get into this beng a relatively (compared to Dan and Baggss) but I will anyway. Before I got my 'Pod, I came and researched everything here. If I found a halfway decent competitor, I would look at that as well. While the OP wouldn't help iPod users, it would help new buyers in making an informed decision.

~Dan

Originally posted by Doug Gilmour
The 35 hours were a nice bonus, and only costs an extra $30 so I figure it would be worth it. The features definitely are impressive:

USB Host, which I can use to dump files on my Nikon's memory card onto the 30GB HDD (useful since I'm not going to be bringing my laptop with me on the trip), "nearly gapless", FM Radio as another that I had always wanted on the iPod for some shows that I listen to, and FLAC support is definitely big deal for me.

-Dan

Nearly gapless? What is "Nearly Gaples"?

FM Radio? Please Dan :rolleyes:

Ya, sorry. My connection here at work does weird things sometimes. I deleted the double.

This is gonna be a long post, hopefully addresses everyone's viewpoints about my post...

I still think the iPod is a very good DAP, it "bridged" over many folks who were still stuck in Disc players. The iPod shuffle introduce these folks to flash-base players.

With Apple's brand name, no doubtly they will sell a lot of ipods. That's assured, I don't think any other brand can challenge them other than Sony, the walkman creators.

I am just a gadget guy, I know there are anti-social trolls that serve as tools and come here just for fun, you have ipod zealots that are the same in other forums.

I frequent other DAP forums just share differences and knowledge about other players, my goal is information and getting the most out of my gadgets and share the experience with others and pass the torch hopefully.

Currently, my ownership of the iAudio X5 has been positive. There are a few limitations of X5 that I felt are gonna cause problems with finicky folks such as misspelling in the menu, the documentation is poor, but overall functionality there's a lot to like.

One of the coolest features that I think Apple should have is an alarm feature, the X5 has advanced alarm settings that allows you to play any current song to wake you up and the settings allow daily, weekdays, one-time, etc. There's also the sleep timer, pretty cool if you need music to fall asleep and to wake you up as well.

One thing lacking is that X5 can display jpg and set wallpapers but you can't display album art, which is something I would like, hopefully with Cowon's frequent firmware update, they can address this feature.

I'm still getting used to the player, it requires patience and you will be rewarded with newly discovered features. I will say it again, this DAP is for the seasoned savvy user, not for the 1st-timers, those who are satisfied with their ipod, there's no reason to upgrade unless your battery is dying. Those that want the features that Apple hasn't address yet, then you may want to take a look.

Key features:

- Sound quality, simply amazing. The default setting is very rich in bass and clarity even with 128kb MP3, they sounded pretty good.

- With ogg/flac support, I dropped in some ripped flac files and compared it with my CD player, I can't tell a difference.

- Value, it includes a very nice stock earbud earphones, pretty close to the sound quality of a decent $40 Senheisser ones. The included software is weak, JetAudio Player is ok, it's like winamp and luckily you can just drag and drop files so your own mp3 file structure is necessary.

- Build quality, I think honestly it exceeds every DAP out there in build quality, seriously. If you ever held it and touched it, the anodized aluminum (if I'm correct) is very solid, feels like a German made Car door, that nice clunk feel if you are an Audi car owner. ;)
Makes the ipod feels like a toy, seriously.. must be seen to believe.

- The size is perfect, in between the size of ipod mini and ipod 4G, it is thinner than both.

- FM tuner is perfect, very good reception.

Cowon will have various versions like the X5L (longer play) with 35hr playback, 40GB, 60GB models, and they have a bunch of accessories too like cradle, LCD remotes, and other goodies.

I hope I don't come across being a hater/troll/flamer/spammer or whatever, this is my honest take and I hope Apple fans take note or use the chance to take a look at the player and maybe Apple will add some of these features in the future.

I may have to remember the iAudio when I am looking for a new DAP to buy in 3 to 6 months...

Originally posted by Doug Gilmour
Nearly gapless is an almost unnoticeable gap, from what I've read it's around 1/10 of a second (obviously not accurate as it's unmeasurable).

FM Radio means a lot to me, there's some great shows on the radio in my local area. I've also recently discovered a station, that from 12:00-4:00 AM on weeknights that plays underground music. I won't be staying up until 4:00 to listen to it all, but from what I understand, I can actually record this show in my preferred bit rate simply by scheduling it on the unit and nothing else. Might mean nothing to some, but it does to me.

-Dan
Why not get a Griffin RadioShark? I know my local underground station keeps the special programs on the internet for a week so I can stream it when I want to listen to it.

Dan, are you just buying something because you think you want something now and have money burning a hole in your pocket or have you thought this through? How is the integration of the Conan ( ;) ) player with OSX?

After your trip, will you continue to use this player? or is it just a fickle purchase for this trip?

Are you going to regret your decision with the release of the 5G's? You also said that you wanted a 60/80gb iPod when you next upgrade ... I don't know what your motives are for getting a 30gb model ... just trying to be a voice of reason :)

Originally posted by Doug Gilmour
Why get the RadioShark and pay another $70? I want a DAP, if it comes with this feature then so be it, I'm not going out of my way to buy a separate standalone product that can I record radio..

Why would I only use it for the trip and then stop using it? It sounds like a superb player that can get great usage, it's being bought because I want something for the trip, and because I've been looking at getting a new DAP for a while, my iPod is around twenty months old. Personally I haven't liked the path Apple has been headed since the 4Gs and continuing with the photo, I'm not impressed with their lack of features. It's a great player don't get me wrong, but I want to go one step further and go for a player that has all the features I want. I highly doubt even half of these features will be implemented into the 5G (USB OTG, line-in/out, etc.) as Apple has too much money involved with the accessory dealers to provide similar features in some areas (iTalk, PocketDock, Camera Connector, etc.). This seems to be a better player for me, than the iPod and I'll gladly trade the features I get with this over iTunes support or 60GBs..

-Dan
Excellent. Sounds like its a perfect player for you!

Were you able to find a reseller for the XL5 in Toronto?

Originally posted by Doug Gilmour
Cowon America has offered to set up a private auction for me on eBay so I can purchase it directly from them, just on eBay.

-Dan

They really want sales ;)

Originally posted by Emultion_Rawks
They really want sales ;)

Or, they're an up-and-coming company with a rapidly growing user base and great customer service..

-Dan

traderx25- im pretty sure the mini has an alarm feature. Ive never used it on my 4G, but im sure its there.

Dan- what music managing program does the x5 use? I may try it out to see if its that bad. One of the biggerst reasons I bought an iPod is because iTunes is so easy to use, and it the X5's isnt that bad I may consider switching. Also did you try newegg when you were trying to buy your X5? I dont know, it may have been easier...

Drag and drop > any software, coming from a long time iHP-120 and iPod user.

Originally posted by thesire
traderx25- im pretty sure the mini has an alarm feature. Ive never used it on my 4G, but im sure its there.

Dan- what music managing program does the x5 use? I may try it out to see if its that bad. One of the biggerst reasons I bought an iPod is because iTunes is so easy to use, and it the X5's isnt that bad I may consider switching. Also did you try newegg when you were trying to buy your X5? I dont know, it may have been easier...

There are no Canadian resellers for the X5L model which I wanted and New Egg does not ship to Canada. eCost has the 30GB X5 model out of stock for three weeks, with only the 20GB X5 in stock. So it was my only option.

I'll be using 'drag and drop', shouldn't be a problem..

-Dan

Originally posted by thesire
traderx25- im pretty sure the mini has an alarm feature. Ive never used it on my 4G, but im sure its there.

Dan- what music managing program does the x5 use? I may try it out to see if its that bad. One of the biggerst reasons I bought an iPod is because iTunes is so easy to use, and it the X5's isnt that bad I may consider switching. Also did you try newegg when you were trying to buy your X5? I dont know, it may have been easier...

I think iTunes is one of the best music management systems before the other systems like Sonic and MusicMatch.

The X5 uses drag-drop, so this means, it is dependent on your file organization abilities.

I strongly emphasize organizing your mp3 files yourself until a better more robust file system comes out.

The reason why ipods tend to freeze more, because it uses DB file system and requires indexing and traversing records and then locating the data. When you fast-forward too frequently and a song is not indexed properly, the ipod's limited cpu freezes and reboots. Hopefully in the future Apple installs a higher performance CPU.

Drag & drop system is faster and more robust because it doesn't have much overhead on the CPU, the only issue is that you must organize the file/folder structure to your liking and know where the songs are.

I think the future is Database, but you will need faster CPUs and disk on the mp3 players to perform flawlessly.

Hmmm, well, when I first got an MP3 player (2001) the only way to use it was drag 'n' drop, and I hated it then, and I still hate it now. I think it is a blessing in a blessing that iTunes came a long and changed all that.

I really dislike the drag 'n' drop way of doing things, which therefore means I will never get a device where you have to do that.

Originally posted by c0mplex
the iAudio X5 does look like a terrific product. the thing that interests me the most is that it can be used as a harddrive for the PSP. once i get a PSP... i am definitely picking up this player.

That's one cool feature that has interested me; USB OTG (USB On-The-Go). It can connect with my Nikon camera and Sony PSP, which are definite pluses, now to see if they work with external HDDs..

-Dan

Originally posted by Emultion_Rawks
Hmmm, well, when I first got an MP3 player (2001) the only way to use it was drag 'n' drop, and I hated it then, and I still hate it now. I think it is a blessing in a blessing that iTunes came a long and changed all that.

I really dislike the drag 'n' drop way of doing things, which therefore means I will never get a device where you have to do that.

there were plenty of programs before itunes...

you people give apple too much credit even if they are an ok company

Originally posted by Emultion_Rawks
And I knew about those, but I still didn't feel they were that great, but iTunes changed all that for me.

So, to make a company "Ok" for you, they have to have sold at least 16 million of their players, have sold over 403 million songs off their music store, and have over 75% of the market share. ;)

In regards to iTunes, I'd rather use Foobar with the foopod plug-in. I wish a Mac version were made..

Most sales does no equal best product, that's an extremely poor argument to make. Hundreds of other factors come into play such as advertising and marketing budgets. I suppose Windows is the absolute best OS because they've got 95% of the market share?

Sorry to say this, but the iTMS is a joke, considering the sole compression and bit rate they offer.

-Dan

iTunes is so succesful simply because Apple put out a working service the first. Sure there are numerous services that offer downloadable music 'legally', but Apple has done it in such a way that it's bundled in a program, not a website. Marketting, and 'hype' is another huge reason why iTunes has been so well greeted. iTunes itself is very limited, takes up a massive amount of resources for a rather bland looking player, and isn't very customizable. Sure you can make all the playlists you want, when it comes to ripping/encoding, its VERY limited. It's file support is also a joke, it supports under 5 formats. It has alot of functions, but absolutely no expandability.

This brings me back to Apple's marketting. They con you into thinking (as any great propaganda should) that the iTunes is the BEST and ONLY program that an iPod/music user can use. Sure it manages music, but so does endless programs. It uses in excess of 30 mb of memory, and close to 10% CPU playing an mp3 file. Foobar2k uses 5 mb, and +/- 2% CPU. Foobar also supports endless formats, which ability for ANY user to code plugins (called components).

I love diehard apple fans. Everything bundled into one program doesn't mean its the best. iTunes music store: 128 AAC, and DRM, really great service, you dont even own what you pay for.

Originally posted by stasyna
i 128 AAC, and DRM, really great service, you dont even own what you pay for.

Really? Explain how I don't own my music? When I burn it to a CD (legally) and then re-rep it, how do I not own it?

Originally posted by baggss
Aw geez Dan, get off your freaking soapbox already.

For 98% of the music buying public iTMS is just fine. You happen to fit into that 2% of weirdoes (;) ) who goes overboard and HAS to have some super duper format and then whine like a 12 year old ##### when everyone doesn't offer it. Go buy your iAudio and sign up for Napster already...

If you want to use Foobar go back and use your PC and quit complaining...

Don't got enough space on my PC to hold all my music unfortunately, and won't use foobar with a partial collection. Also, I'd prefer to use OS X to XP.. 98%? I'm not sure about that. I know of plenty of people that are disgusted with what is offered. Choice is always good, if they offered at least 192kbps I'd consider picking up the odd track. And Napster, I don't think so. Renting my music, not likely. eMusic looks like a good option for those who buy tracks online. Alas, I am not one of them and will either download my music in whichever quality I choose, or buy the actual album if it's good enough and rip it as I please.

Emultionrawks,

If you like iTunes (not bad, it's a nice player) and the iTMS (don't agree with you there) then good on you. But to claim Apple is an incredible company because of the iPod and iTunes' sales really isn't probable when it (as previously stated) has much more to do with the company's marketing budget and advertising power. Keep in mind that Apple started off the iPod with a huge marketing budget from their success with computers while Cowon has started from the ground up!

Now don't get me wrong, the iPod is a great player, which I love and will still use. I am not anti-iPod at all and think it still is the easiest and simplest (in terms of navigation and function) player around. I just think the iAudio is a good alternative for those that want more features, which is what I was after.

Am I becoming the next Adam..? ;)

-Dan

Originally posted by lilsuprano
ATTENTION TO MODS:

Looks like we need a new Forum Helper, our current one is a traitor!!!

:D ;)

Eric

Don't shun me, I still love the iPod! ;)

There's always iAudiophile.net though... :D

-Dan

Originally posted by hacp
Wait, don't you just own a liscense to listen to that music? Or is that with software and not with music?

You buy the right to burn the songs to up to 5 CDs (IIRC). Once you burn them, they can't control what you do with them so in essence, you do own the music.

Originally posted by Doug Gilmour

Am I becoming the next Adam..? ;)

-Dan

Love it!

As for Foobar, I use it for the sole reason of gapless playback. And it just works (unlike my bitter experience with, 4.1 mind you, iTunes).

As for Database vs. File system - I had my music organised into an artist-album-songs folder system before I got my first iPod. It worked then, throughout the iPod's life, and now beyond the iPod.

It just gives you flexibility.

Originally posted by c0mplex
for those who have the iAudio X5... i juss have a couple of questions:

1) how easy is it to scroll around a very large music library?
2) can you have multiple playlists?
3) i noticed in a couple of screenshots that there are different pictures used as wallpaper when playing music files. does that mean that you can use your jpeg files as wallpaper?
4) how easy is it to rip DVDs and compress them so you can watch it on the player?

1) There are several ways to scroll albums or folders via the joystick, it is slightly more tedious than the iRiver method of traversing folders, it really is dependent on your folder organization.

It is both its strength and weakness, the ipod is more powerful here.

2) Multiple playlist is pretty simple, it does support it.

3) Yes, you can pick any jpg picture in your X5 to be your background wallpaper, there are folks making their on launch video like OS X.

4) I don't think you want to watch DVD on this thing, it is 15fps, will make you squint. It is just a gimmick to watch a small video clip but Jetaudio program allows you to convert videos into MPEG4 AVI.

Wanna try renaming and tagging 100,000 songs?

The more music I have, the better I find iTunes.

It's about tradeoffs at each end... however, even if I had to cart the iPod around to other computers I can still carry Ephpod, Copypod and iTunes as single-hit executables. It's true that the iAudio's good when you have a low amount of music, a lot of badly tagged music which you simply want to move to another folder. When you actually start buying your music and in decent quantities, iTunes is decidedly superior. And we haven't even got to the playlisting...

^ speaks the truth.

I have never turned back from albums as soon as I got my first MP3 player (kind of the opposite way you're supposed to go right?).

Post some pics when you get back from Italy...with the PSP too :D

Eric

Originally posted by Lone
Ah, a shot at those who like file/folder browsing...because we don't have a perfectly tagged music collection it must mean we download all our music illegally :rolleyes:

iTunes is nice for making playlists, but if you listen to whole albums the way the artist intended, they are highly unnecessary' (a little elitism back at ya partner ;) ).

It's not really a shot. I actually have to use file/folder browsing as well as I have other DAPs and with a hundred-GB-plus collection which is growing all the time with CD rips, I find it very difficult to keep tabs on what I want to load. Making playlists doesn't have to make me cut up albums. I also like to listen to complete albums but iTunes and playlists makes it easier for me to transfer those over. Can I figure out what I ripped last week in Windows? If I do want to mix it up between albums I specifically want to load and a random selection, could I do it? Say I wanted all music I've ripped in the last week to automatically migrate to the iPod when it's docked (not unreasonable I hope), will UMS do that? No. With the iPod, I have the flexibility of treating it like a folder tree player with various third party tools, but I've also got the absolute best sync client in the business, bar none.

File and folder browsing is all very well if you have all your music on the player, or for low volume players. But I think that beyond a certain level the ease with which applications like iTunes can keep track of a large library outstrips the perceived handiness of UMS for music loading. The particular flexibility of iTunes playlisting also can't be ignored.

It's not perfect, but I find j.River Media Center the next best thing to iTunes on UMS players. That's what I use/d with the iAudio M3 I had before, as well as the iRiver players I have now.

Lame, seems as if my X5L is stuck in Canadian customs, and I leave tomorrow. I'm having it sent to where I am staying in Italy instead. Bit inconvenient now since I need to carry around my External HDD so that I can add my music to it in Italy, but hey, it could be worse.

I leave tomorrow morning for my trip, and won't be around much (when I find some web-cafes). See you guys around and have a nice summer.

-Dan

Originally posted by Adam
Hopefully not a sign of things to come from the X5 ;)

Have a good trip.

Thanks bud, have a nice er - winter..

Keep the 'Pod fanboys in check if the 5Gs are announced! ;)

-Dan

Originally posted by traderx25

I've spoken to many folks I know in the business and the word is the next gen will be more variety, size, and features but nothing new on the table. We won't be getting bluetooth yet, atleast won't be until bluetooth is everywhere. It's just too expensive for Apple to added in and charge us $400 for a 30GB ipod.

I'm skipping out iPod until I see the newer features are in and some older problems fixed, so far it is looking good with the battery and click wheel > touch wheel.

From who have you heard these things, people at Apple? This sounds just like speculation to me considering I've heard virtually nil at the rumor sites.
And what do you mean by your last statement? That Apple is or isn't changing the wheel?

I ordered mine a few days ago after selling my iPod. The iPod is a good player, no doubt - great design, brilliant ease of use, and reasonable pricing. But the Cowon has a few things that tipped me over the edge: the recording capabilities, FM radio (I only wish there was AM, though - I have an AM station that plays podcasts a lot), and FLAC support. I was going to go for the X5L, but I got a good price on the X5, and I really don't need the extra 15-20 hours. 30GB. We'll see what G5 iPod has, though - the DAP saga isn't over yet...

Been playing with it now for five days, some initial impressions:

The first thing I noticed when I plugged my headphones in was the superb sound quality, with (or even without to a somewhat lesser degree) the customized five-band the bass really thumps! Screen quality is decent and the "Colour Sound" logo is far less intrusive than pictures seem to suggest (at least for me). Navigation isn't as simple as the iPod's, but isn't too difficult. One thing I sometimes get confused on is how to get back to the main menu when at certain screens, such as holding down the button for two seconds, one second, or pressing record.

More to come, I'm planning on doing a little write-up on it sometime soon.

-Dan

Originally posted by Blankwire
Is that drops 4 hours, or drops to 4 hours?

When I first saw the X5, I have to admit I was turned on. I liked the idea of drag n' drop, because I could go back to foobar2000 (since the iPod plugin isn't too friendly), but I still had some complaints.

How's the dock extention thingy, Dan? Does it get in the way when trying to transfer music? Does it support album art?

The subpack? I've barely used it for anything but charging (had to have someone transfer for me and then send it as I'm traveling around Europe. What I first noticed about the subpack was how loosely it fits into the unit itself. There are no clips at the part that latches into the unit's port like the iPod's cable has. Definitely not a good point for charging and transfering. The subpack does allow for easy line-in recording though and I haven't yet tested the line-out feature.

-Dan

I own a 30gb iAudio X5L and I purchased my girlfriend a 4gb iPod mini. The main difference is the user friendliness of the iPod vs. the iAudio. My girlfriend would not be able to navigate and use the iAudio like she can the iPod. From a pure statistical view the X5L is much better. The battery life is 35 hours it plays video with stunning quality. USB Hot, OGG,FLAC. Basically the iAudio is an overall better DAP. The iPod photo would probably be better had it supported video playback. I think they are both great for what they do and its a consumer choice. I went with the iAudio X5L for battery life and video playback.

Originally posted by jlevi
I'm just saying it's not the best and it's foolhardy to assume it is because it sells the most.

No, it's foolhardy to make statements without thinking.

My iPod Mini is the best player -- for me. The iPod is the best player -- for over 120 million.

Maybe the iAudio X5 is the best for you, but it doesn't mean it is the best player on the market.

There is no real best player, as everyones needs are different.

EDIT: By the way, your sig is much too big. The Forum Rules state that a sig must be no larger than 300 x 50.

i would like to see what the X5 looks like. do you have a direct link to its website. im sorry im to lazy to google it.

Well folks, you probably heard or read about the iAudio X5 on Cnet or from others.

I'm possibly on the verge of selling the X5 30GB. After extensive usage of 2 months+ with the X5, I have several complaints about it.

It is still a pretty decent DAP but I just don't think Cowon put in enough polish or thought into the design.

The thumbstick is driving me nuts, now most folks probably at one point find it annoying that if they did not lock their ipods and it was in your shirt or jean pocket that it would accidentally FF or skip songs.

Well the X5 is even more sensitive because the thumbstick sticks out. It is also difficult to not over skip or FF, since it is so senstive.

The biggest complaint I have is that Cowon never implemented an album or folder skip feature. This means if you have 50~100 songs in a folder or album and you want to skip this folder, it is impossible to do this with a click.

You have to push down and menu scroll to the next folder!! Or click and skip one song at a time til you reach the last song in the folder. It is quite tedious everytime and battery wasting.

The other complaint is that the X5 UI is quite buggy, if you think your iPod 3G freezes a lot, the X5 does that even more and you ned a thin needle not a paperclip to reset it, since the reset button is in a hole and it so tiny and deep.

One example, while skipping songs the X5 has a tendancy to hour-glass a lot, just like Windows. When it is trying to access the next song, the hour-glass would come up and delay quite a bit.

Overall I think it is a decent player that some folks can live with however it has numerous control issues and bugs that I'm growing impatient with.

Hope my review help some of you with making your decision easier.

Originally posted by thedodgyguy
Well, they are in the habit of releasing "firmware upgrades"more frequently than iRiver. I had a lot of problems with my bought-at-release M3, but at that time firmware updates which actually fixed problems I was having were coming out every two~three weeks.

It's not the way to release players, and both iRiver and iAudio do this to a depressingly predictable degree. But on the whole, I have more confidence in Cowon these days to promptly fix major issues and implement stuff which they forgot to put in.

Getting the remote may be a partial fix to your problems as well.

It's true Cowon does release firmware more often, however they are just minor fixes. The X5 has a lot of spelling errors. I notice even ipodlounge mods has shown interest in this DAP. It's a really nice clean design, if Cowon gave it a thumbwheel or some kind of dials it would work much better than that thumbstick.

Right now, when I go from FM tuner to MP3 player, sometimes it freezes.

As for the remote, I don't think the remote would solve it. It doesn't have the folder skip feature as well, just a simple clicker that does Forward or backward and search functions. And it cost $49 ouch. More expensive than my new Griffin Airclick wireless remote for the iPod.

The biggest strength for X5 is the build quality and sound quality, absolutely the best sounding DAP and the most well built player, however the controls are awful. Even the Dell DJ has better controls.

The X5 looks and sounds like a great DAP and if I didn't already have the iPod it's one of the very few I'd serioulsy think about getting.

I still think that iPod's design and UI are second to done (i prefer the minimalistic aproach) so I'm not about to switch anytime soon... but if anything happens to my iPod I'd definatly take a closer look at it.

Honestly reading through this thread and playing around with it, it still (to me) seems that its another iRiver.

A bunch of features with a terrible UI. I mean those features are nice, but UI (IMHO) should be designed first and foremost.

I truly see nothing redeeming about this player except for Video/Radio, otuside of that... it just seems pointless. The percentage of people who can hear the difference between Mp3/OGG are .0001 percent if that, and the people who can hear the difference between FLAC and MP3 and have good enough earphones to hear it... thats about 1% of people who own either or.

Originally posted by enjoilax
Honestly reading through this thread and playing around with it, it still (to me) seems that its another iRiver.

A bunch of features with a terrible UI. I mean those features are nice, but UI (IMHO) should be designed first and foremost.

I truly see nothing redeeming about this player except for Video/Radio, otuside of that... it just seems pointless. The percentage of people who can hear the difference between Mp3/OGG are .0001 percent if that, and the people who can hear the difference between FLAC and MP3 and have good enough earphones to hear it... thats about 1% of people who own either or.

I've had no problem at all with the UI. It took me a little to get used to and now it's nearly as smooth to me as the iPod's. I found it was too slow navigating out-of-the-box so I went into the settings and increased the speed. What I like about it is FM, USB Host, real-time encoding for anything with a headphone port, great recording features (Voice, radio), and outstanding sound quality paired with many audio settings such as a five-band EQ. The player is also very solidly built, no scratches at all on the screen, after nearly two months. Those are all redeeming to me, I haven't even tried video yet, that's not what I bought it for. The fact that it plays Ogg, FLAC, and video is just icing on the cake for me.

-Dan

I like to spend some time flicking through what Ihave a deciding what I'm going to listen to next, as I rarely know exactly what I want to listen to!

So time taken doesn't concern me, especially if I'm on a long train journey or something, as it breaks up the journey if I'm doing something a little different

Maybe the new Cowon A2 is the one to consider?

dapreview.net/comment.php?comment.news.2202

And for anyone who can read Korean:

ihome.iaudio.com/iaudio_board/review/cowon_a2_review01.html

I'm told it's due to hit the American and European markets this month or next. I'm certainly considering one (although I just bought a nano to go with my old iaudio M3) :)

And you bothered to reply with that?

I haven't been on for a while and found the discussion interesting. Get over yourself...

Of special note too is the beginning of development of the open-source firmware 'Rockbox' for the iAudio X5.

I am using this firmware on my iRiver iHP-120 and it's nothing short of amazing. I would even consider purchasing an X5 for Rockbox once it's finished just because of the colour screen and the good looking unit...

I have a karma and of course the hard drive seems to be dieing...

I've picked up a nano recently and like it. For a flash player, it's hard to touch it. However, it doesn't touch the karma.
One thing I always had a chuckle about was the supposed intuitive UI that the ipod has...well I think that's because there is very little functionality in the ipod. Compare this with the karma that has a ton of features that are music centred and the UI is still easier IMHO than my nano's.

I'm so sad that Rio died...their hardware was just not up to snuff I guess and this caused them not to have the resources for marketing.

Anyways, hopefully the next X5 will add real gapless, a bigger screen, and a better UI. I like the apple UI better compared to the X5. I've only played with the X5 momentarily as you can't buy them in Canada I believe.

If anyone has any other suggestions, it would be cool to hear them.

LIP