Hypothetical Copyright ?
So the issue with downloading, trading... Is that if I get a MP3 from a friend, I am violating copyright laws because I didn't buy it??
So what if I owned a Stones album that I bought 20 years ago... and is now long lost... My friend has just bought and ripped the CD... Can I then legally own the MP3's?
What if I actually still have the album but it is in bad shape and I don't want to rip vinyl, let alone bad vinyl... then is it legal for me to own the MP3's??
What if I buy a bunch of old albums at a garage sale for .50 a piece? Can I then legally own MP3's based on having purchased that music?
[654 byte] By [
slr001] at [2007-11-9 14:33:55]
# 1 Re: Hypothetical Copyright ?
In the US, Germany, and several other countries, making MP3s out of an album you already own is perfectly legal. In the UK it is not.
Whether you are allowed to download illegally shared MP3s for albums you already own is much less clear. It is most likely illegal.
If your "friend" is actually a friend in that you know them and you are trading files between yourselves and not with your 65 million other "friends" through KaZaA, then it is a legal grey area. Probably no one will come after you, however it *could* be found to be infringement.
# 2 Re: Hypothetical Copyright ?
I'm sure we are allowed to make mp3s out of albums we own, it's the basis of most mp3 players. When you buy music, you buy a license to own the music, you can backup and store it any way you want.
Mario at 2007-11-15 17:32:20 >
# 3 Re: Hypothetical Copyright ?
The record labels would probably argue you paid for the disc and a license to listen to the music. Luckily, so far, 'fair use' seems to have applied to converting to MP3, however with copy-protected CDs, you get into a whole other area, like the guy that SunnComm is filing a criminal complaint about via the DMCA for telling people to press shift to override the copyright protection on SunnComm's latest.
# 4 Re: Hypothetical Copyright ?
Tubedogg,
I'm not sure that you are right. I think that ripping albums you own (or taping them) for your own use only, and while you retain the original legal master, is legal even in the UK.
"So the issue with downloading, trading... Is that if I get a MP3 from a friend, I am violating copyright laws because I didn't buy it?"
You are violating copyright law because you have not legally obtained a licence to own or listen to that music. If you download, you're also an accessory after the fact, because the person uploading the music is committing a different offence, and you could be seen to be encouraging that offence.
"So what if I owned a Stones album that I bought 20 years ago... and is now long lost... My friend has just bought and ripped the CD... Can I then legally own the MP3's?"
No, you can't. You must own the original.
"What if I actually still have the album but it is in bad shape and I don't want to rip vinyl, let alone bad vinyl... then is it legal for me to own the MP3's?"
Yes, but not if you obtain those MP3s illegally.
"What if I buy a bunch of old albums at a garage sale for .50 a piece? Can I then legally own MP3's based on having purchased that music?"
Yes, but not if you obtain those MP3s illegally.
# 5 Re: Hypothetical Copyright ?
Jackonicko...
While I don't in general diagree with you. But what is the defenition of "obtaining them illegaly?
I think we have established the fact that if I purchased the original album or 8-track (dating myself)... lets just say I have legally purchased a the recording. Then I have a legal right to also own a digital copy of that to listen to on my laptop, MP3 player, Mini-Disc, etc...
Is it really illegal for me to download it? I don't use Kazza or any of the equivalents... I don't post or make available any music. Last I checked peer to peer, and other means of getting binary files were all perfectly legal. Making copyrighted material available is what is illegal.
While I think that if Joe Blow makes a copyrighted MP3 available and I donwload it, what he is doing is illegeal. What I am doing (if I have purchased a copy of it, album, etc) is probably in some grey area. But I don't think it can be said that I illegaly "own" copyrighted material, because I have the original.?
I gues the original question I was trying to ask, or the point I was trying to put out for clarification was this...
If I bought the album... and NEVER sold it to someone else or a used record shop etc... But I don't currently have it... (got thrown away, damaged in a flood or fire, lost in a move, stolen, etc).. Do I have a legal right to have a digital copy of it... Remember having the MP3, and how I got it are 2 different topics.
slr001 at 2007-11-15 17:35:20 >
# 6 Re: Hypothetical Copyright ?
1) Using a download service makes you an accessory to any crime involved in that.
2) My understanding is that the law does require that you should be in current ownership of the legally purchased original. This may be because it would otherwise be impossible to prove that you do own the right to make a comment, and that you did not 'sell on' the original.
# 7 Re: Hypothetical Copyright ?
just for the sake of argument, what if you legally own a bunch of cd?s, you rip and then sell the originals (cd?s) and keep only the mp3?s? you?re left with a computer full of mp3?s and no cd?s to match them.
m.r.m. at 2007-11-15 17:37:22 >
# 8 Re: Hypothetical Copyright ?
m.r.m.
Again kind of grey... as Jackonicko points out in his previous post... Kind of hard to prove prior ownership. But at least in my mind it is pretty clear that if you sell them, you sell any right you had to continue to own them in digital form also.
I mean if you buy it, copy it, sell it... and 10 more people do the same thing with that same CD you started with... Do you really think that those 10 people have a legal right to own the music? Even though all 10 may have "paid" money to buy it, they didn't pay it to the artist. The artist/record company only got paid once.
slr001 at 2007-11-15 17:38:25 >
