Warning: iPod is not a portable music solution at all

8 hours is portable.

If Apple can make the iPod run for 8 hours of course they will say 8 hours, why wouldn't they?

Anyway, I like the fact that the iPod is small. I would be happy even with 4 hours of battery life, for me the battery meter doesn't go below 50% very often.
You wouldn't.
Who's right? Nobody. But why should Apple care about what you, and only you, think?

It's pretty stupid to call something that weights 160 grams and can play for 8 hours - a full working day - "not portable at all".

Go buy a Dell DJ or something... Even though it has double the battery life of iPod I would call iPod more portable.

Well, half my point was that it doesn't play for 8 hours, and I wouldn't have bought it if I realised it didn't. Apple should advertise 4-6 hours of actual play time based on the assumption that people will use the menus, stop and start it from time to time, etc.

See, the thing is, I care about music, i.e. the sound that reaches my ears. A lot of people here seem to care about where that sound comes from more than the sound itself. IMHO if a music player is doing its job it should rarely be seen except to change what you are listening to. It certainly shouldn't require constant recharging.

Let me put it another way - the iPod has comparable battery life to the original Sony Walkman. That aint a good thing. If more battery life wasn't a big plus, companies wouldn't spend millions working on better batteries.

And seriously - 160 grams. Wouldn't you rather have it weight 200 or so and get another 4-6 hours of batter life? Surely you can lift 200 grams? Or is it more important to be able to quote the iPods numbers like its a Playboy bunny or something?

Caveat emptor.

No flame meant, but it wouldn't have taken alot of research to realize that battery life is not one of the 3G's strong points. Perhaps you would've been happier with a 2G, which *is* a bit bigger and has better battery life?

Well, after a look at Apple's site they DO have a footnote saying battery life varies by use. But who's to say that YOUR "ordinary usage" is not MY ordinary usage? To say that you "used people's responses on the Internet to make a decision", but then criticize everyone else for putting up with what YOU percieve to be a shortcoming is unfair.

And caveat emptor is not a cop-out. It's been true for far too long and always will be. I got your point that you "tried" to do some research, but my point is that it really ISN'T that hard to "wade through the sea of Apple fans" to compare battery life, or see the strengths or weaknesses or usability of the Ipod. There are reviews on the net, too, that are somewhat less partial. Not from Apple fans, but from places like PC magazine that try to objectively lay out the facts.

I'm sorry you didn't find the 3G to be satisfactory for your needs, but you can't really blame Apple for false advertising when it does get 8 hours/charge depending on usage. I don't blame them for advertising to the high-side of the spec, that's marketing for you.

Hmmm, someone does not understand sales and marketing...

So lets follow your ladder analogy... If I had an 8 foot ladder to sell, but you could only climb to 6 ft (because the top 2 rungs can't safely be stood on), how would I sell it? I would sell it as an 8 foot ladder.

See the thing is this... truth does not exist in product announcements. Not because a given company is dishonest... but you are in a competitive landscape and you have to make every feature sound better than it is... because the competition is going to stretch the truth also.

I am not by any means an Apple appologist, never owned an Apple, never will... I think iTunes for windows is a poor excuse for software. But my iPod is EXACTLY what I expected... because I DIDN'T believe Apple, instead I did extensive reasearch and found out what I needed to before making my purchasing decision.

If your only research consisted of reading the Apple ad, well then you got what you deserved.

When you buy a car do you see a cool commercial on TV and go out and buy it just like that?

"If your only research consisted of reading the Apple ad, well then you got what you deserved."

That is a ridiculous statement. Your whole argument is ridiculous, but more on that in a minute. My research did not wholly consist of reading an Apple ad, I did a fair bit of research and talked to a few people with iPods (unfortunately Gen 1+2 so they had fewer battery issues). I will assert once more (I am a law student): IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO MAKE STATEMENTS THAT ARE FALSE OR LIKELY TO MISLEAD AN ORDINARY PERSON IN ADVERTISING MATERIAL AND IT IS LEGAL GROUNDS FOR A FULL REFUND IF A PURCHASE IS MADE IN RELIANCE ON SUCH STATEMENTS. Is that clear enough? Consumers don't "get what they deserve." If companies lie, or intentionally mislead, they are responsible for the resulting problems, not the consumer.

Why do you people want to defend companies who behave like this? You are consumers first and foremost.

As for "truth does not exist in product announcements", well, I must agree with you based on the recent 'fastest PC ever' claims from Apple but this is not the same as something like battery life which should be a matter of simply measuring the AVERAGE battery life for NORMAL USE.

As for the ladder, I would realise that I can't stand on the top rungs because I'm not an idiot. However, what Apple has said is the equivalent of 'this is a ladder that will let you stand at least 8 feet off the ground' if you want to get pedantic about it.

You're right. I am in a 'competitive landscape.' That's why Apple has got my iPod back and I have got my money back. I now intend to convince as many people as possible *not* to buy Apple products in the hope that I can cost them thousands of dollars.

Well you had a bad experience, but you shouldn't let your isolated experience lead you to say "iPod is not a portable music solution at all"... For 99.9% of iPod users, iPod is a complete portable music solution that we are delighted with. You probably got a bad unit. You say you wouldn't mind if the iPod were a bit thicker and longer/wider to increase batt. life, but the thing is that most of us would mind. For myself (and many other people), size is a big deciding factor, and even a small increase would make many people unhappy. Also the 8 hour battery life is advertised on the iPod packaging/website, if you wanted a 12-hour audio device, you shouldn't have purchased the iPod. For a majority of users, the iPod gets charged every night and the battery is not an issue. If you have increased expectations, buy another device!

Originally posted by caitsith01
I have never understood the desperation with which Apple fans will defend a large corporation who in many ways acts in a similar fashion to every other corporation. Not many companies I know stick their logo all over everything is such a brazen manner, and you people just lap it up whilst all the time thinking that you are being 'different' and individual because Apple has such a puny market share. Get over it.


You are of course entitled to your opinion of the iPod and it should be said that you are not the only one who feels this way and who has returned an iPod.

Yet let's state for the record that at least half of all iPod owners (I remember reading this somewhere) are windows users who will never switch to apple and who will never become "apple" fans. The iPod is a cross platform device that has its own fans (and critics).

For me battery life has never been an issue. I have a laptop that was also advertised as "up to 6 hours" and never got it, since this depends on which programs I'm running etc. Just ripping a CD on battery reduces these "6 hours" to a half hour at best.

But that's just me.

Alicia

Originally posted by SlutMonkey
Caitsith, without me making any judgements whatsoever, I would like to know whether you have owned any *modern* battery-operated consumer electronic products (let's say for example a mobile phone, digital camera or a laptop)... What are your experience with batteries of these?

Man, I was hoping someone would bring that up.

I currently own an Ericsson t68i mobile phone. It's switched on approximately 17 hours a day. I only need to charge it once every seven days, and it takes maybe 40 minutes to fully charge. It also has an internal clock and wakeup feature that means that, like the iPod, it is never actually totally off - I use it as an alarm clock. I would estimate that the phone weighs about 80 grams or less.

I also have a Sony Minidisc player, an MZ-500 I believe is its model number. This runs on a single AA battery. I bought some Nickel Metal-Hydride batteries a while ago. On a single charge of a single NiMH AA battery the Minidisc will play for at least 25 hours, typically about 30-35 hours. I would also point out that this player has to spin a disc (just like an iPod), decode encoded music files (just like an iPod), run equalisation (just like an iPod), amplify sound and provide power to headphones (just like an iPod) and run a dot matrix display (just like an iPod). It also weighs a lot less than an iPod. I change the battery about once every two weeks or so, depending on my usage. Also, the batteries seem to hold their charge pretty much indefinitely when not in use, so I charge 4 at a time and typically only have to do this once every couple of months.

I also have a Palm Pilot, running on NiMH AAA batteries I charge it about once every two months, and a Fuji FinePix digital camera which can take about 256 megs or so of 2Mpixel pictures with intermittent flash use on a couple of AA batteries.

Questions?

Without making any judgements I would like to know if any of YOU have owned any *MODERN* battery powered mobile devices. You sure can't count the iPod...

wakeup feature that means that, like the iPod, it is never actually totally off

If you do a search or somthing on the forum you will find that someone found out how to make the ipod turn off totally when you turn it off by pressing play for so many seconds.

Originally posted by Huntyz
*Booooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiingg gggg* seen this so many times...

Go buy a Zen then.

Thanks for your contribution. I don't want a Zen, although there seems to be an unreasonable amount of prejudice against it hereabouts.

Ever wondered why you've seen this so many times? Nah, must be that everyone ELSE is crazy, right?

I really don't see the problem. Your average person isn't going to get through a six hour listening in one day.

I can understand the issue you're having, but it's a pretty minor flaw. Not paying for the bloody batteries is a good enough reason for me. You're frustrated, but were willing to let one thing annoy you enough to not use the product. One thing that isn'r really an issue. If you're going to be away from home long enough that the battery would run out (i.e a few days. My iPod will go for a few days without a charge with my listening amount.) then it's common sense to bring a charger. The iPod battery lasts the same as my phone (Nokia 3310) - a few days use.

Ok, so that's not the same in hours - I have the phone on all the time and the iPod isn't - but it's the same in days.

Ok kids let stop this right now. Yes the ipod is cool, wonderful, a god send but lets not forget why we bought this thing in the first, "music baby". On battery life you have to except that it will be less with size(even laptops suffers from this cuz of all the onboard devices that is built in to it no matter of chipset or power management) plus beside just music you have to factor the os, backlight, harddrive cycles, system management, and headphone output no power to run and when you do this at a non stop rate power will go down faster than you know. When it come down to the true product testing and trial runs it all guesses than real test results. If you run a test you look for the top peak results and state them first before all other answers after full trial runs. I'm not say Apple is bad or that I'm a fan of the company, I like my ipod and expect that is what you get with a portable device on size and what you really put it through. Not everyday average use is the same or will be the same but to say apple is lying is well being a fool to trust any company that state anything as this is what we got when we tested it. I will not say get a zen or just call you out cuz that not the point and just rude & mean to say but I do understand what you are state about the battery life and apple should have underline 8 hours max but depending on what you use it for that 6 to 7 hours is normal max.

Don't let this be a bad experience with apple cuz they do make good products........ok I own a ipod but that all I want and will not switch to a mac, i'm happy with my Sharon PC. Just remeber that a company product is not all hype and that all the tech spec aside is not alway the truth. My 2cent.

Originally posted by SlutMonkey
IMO, the more complex a hi-tech product gets, the more possibilities there are for a user to limit the battery time. I think the Apple iPod is a perfect example of how different ways of usage, like for example high-bitrate Mp3s, different headphones, types of music, movement and normal fiddling around with buttons, will decrease the battery time. For me, that is just common sense. :)


I guess ultimately you are right, but for me it was a particularly jarring experience because when I bought it 8 hours was right on the lower limit of what was acceptable to me, so a significant dip under that is simply not acceptable. I took care to ask the staff at the Apple store about the battery life, and also to check on the Apple website and epinions.com. I just feel that the IT industry, the way it is structured with the manufacturers and the retailers being quite dispersed and a general approach of minimal accountability, can get away with business practices that would not be acceptable in other areas. The attitude of 'you have to expect that' is exactly why they are able to do this kind of thing.

Originally posted by SlutMonkey

The nice thing about being a consumer in the free world is that you have a choice - just get a different mp3 player.

Well, a core principle of genuine free market capitalism is the need for accurate and complete information. In this instance there was a failure of the market because the information I was given was inaccurate and unrealistic. So you really have to temper 'choice' by acknowledging that it is a lot easier to buy something than to return it, and it is a lot harder to get a genuinely accurate idea of how a product will perform until after you buy it.

To force them to take my iPod back I had to take the local Trade Practices legislation down to the store, along with evidence of the claims they had made (luckily I had the store's brochure about the iPod that they gave me on my initial inquiry), and show them the part about misleading claims leading to purchases being grounds for the voiding of a contract of sale... unfortunately not all consumers have legal knowledge of, or access to, such things.

Sadly a market is only as free as the information that describes it. As it is I have to pay some bs 'restocking fee' - does anyone know what that is or whether I actually have to pay it? :confused:

You?re a law student but to be honest the new time you buy a new product get a paralegal to do the research on it.

It would take anyone about 15 minutes to run a search on an iPod, come up with not only this site but plenty of others that cover not only the iPod but other MAC products in depth, and have a large number of threads that discuss the battery life on the 3rd Gen iPod.

And as far as what is "fair" in regards to what specs a company attaches to their products if you think that every product out there has accurate specs on the box or in their ads then you are going to be one busy lawyer. I say next find a forum about routers and start attacking the Linksys and their claim you get 54 mbps on their 802.11g routers.

Or wait next go after Hewlett Packard, for years they have claimed their printers print at a certain rate a minute. My old printer was supposed to do 12 black ink pages a minute. But hey it only did 6 or 7 at the most. What is up with that? Why because I wanted best resolution? That?s wrong? Who wouldn't want to print in best resolution? I have to print in low quality to hit the specs on the side of the box? Really? Terrible marketing. Lies. Sue and never buy again! HP printersaren't really printer solutions at all!

Let's see whose next..............

I don't rely on a company to be honest with me on what their products could do or else I would buy every product from every infomercial I ever saw and I am pretty sure that would take care of the cleaning and cooking in my house for the rest of my life. But being a realist I understand not all products work, or perform as advertised.

I am a PC user so save me the Apple zealot generalization. You won't get very far on these boards flinging that out in your posts. This is an iPod forum, not a MAC forum. 50% of all iPod users are Windows users. 6 minutes of internet research could have netted you that information. So it stands to reason a good portion of those of us here use MS products. You?re going to be a lawyer so start basing your arguments on fact instead of conjecture.

There is just one thing I don't understand. You managed in your anger to find these boards to complain to people about a product you bought about a drawback that, even as fans of the device, we ourselves complain about. And then start a thread that says that the iPod is not a portable music solution "AT ALL". What kind of responses did you think you would get. Were you expecting us to thank you from pulling the scales off our eyes and showing us how bad our iPods really are? I just don't get it. Why didn't you take the time to find us before you bought? You would have gotten the info you needed and could have avoided your unhappy experience.

Point is it?s your opinion and so in that respect it is right. But the next time you buy a product like an iPod spend the time researching it (the model you are about to purchase, not the model your friends have).
Find a forum like this BEFORE you buy instead of after and maybe you will have the kind of info you need to make the right purchase.

Last word of advice - Epinions? Maybe for blenders or something like that. But not tech products. The internet has tons of reviews of all tech and electronic products in the market. Take advantage of that.
And your next MP3 player should not be an iPod, I think we established that. Check out the Dell DJ or the iRiver http://www.iriveramerica.com/products/iHP-120.asp

caitsith01, I understand your thoughts. I was also ####ed about the low battery life, especially after wave of new players came out which, in most cases, offered double the time.
Charge your iPod and let it play your playlist without touching it, it should reach at least the promissed 8 hours. With tweaks, EQ, long songs with big bitrates, and even a few seconds backlight timer should give you at least 6 as far as I know. I know it sucks, but you should've done some research about it before getting such an expensive device. You can't blame apple for publishing 'false' battery time, because you can reach it. Most players do that. The Zen apperently plays for about 10 hours, and not the 14 hours creative promisses.

If battery is such an issue for you, and you're willing to compromise on size to get it, get the Dell DJ, which apperently has a great battery, lasting more than 20 hours in some tests... It's bigger than the iPod, but very similiar in looks and features. It even has voice recording and line out. It's low price means you could sell your iPod and get a matching size Dell DJ without losing money.

Chump? Ok.
I give you credit you are a perfect lawyer. You change the argument every time someone brings up a different point.
Listen I belittled you as much as you belittled the rest of us about being Apple zealots without knowing the facts.
And I am sure others you come to the site will appreciate your post describing the ills of the iPod. Maybe if you had done the same you wouldn't need to post.

I think SlutMonkeyand SpideyPod are right on in their comments.

And to give you a better example than your 8-foot ladder example, Caitsith, which I thought was pretty stupid--

My car's sticker said I would get 34 MPG. But with my driving I'm only getting (gasp!) 30 miles!! Guess I should boycott Chrysler!! And Ford, and Dodge, and every single other car manufacturer- they lie!! Just because I'm heavy on the gas pedal doesn't matter. They should publish ACTUAL miles-per-gallon for EVERY SINGLE driving style!!

Do you see where we're coming from now?

I still say let the buyer beware.

And to address your concern that I AM Apple, I am not. I've never had an Apple product before, and the iPod will be my first. Yes, I don't even have an iPod yet. But it's on its way, and I've done enough research to know the advantages/disadvantages of the device.

As a side note, it doesn't bode well as a law student for your argument when you start calling people chumps. It's obvious you have an anti-Apple agenda, far worse than probably most people here have a pro-Apple one. In *my* opinion. Call me a chump, or whatever you want, doesn't matter to me.

Have a nice day.

:)

So, according to you this is my fault because I didn't devote several days of my life trawling the net for every last tidbit of information. I did actually read a fair bit, and I would say it was 99% positive, 1% slightly ambivalent, 0% negative.

It's amazing that a law student like yourself has the time and motivation to spend 'here' defending your mistake in choosing and purchasing the ipod, yet didn't draw the proper conclusion from your own 'research' (which could have been done in this very place). You could have easily found all the pros ... and cons.. you needed simply by browsing the different areas of these forums or apples own forums.

:)

Geez...

I'm surprised caitsith01 didn't complain that he was only getting 17GBs (or so) of storage on his 20GB G3 iPod.

Heck, I'm still ####ed when I purchase a 2x4 at the local home store, and it turns out to be 1 3/4 x 3 1/2! ;-)

Originally posted by caitsith01
Most of all, I want to know: why are you all so happy with a product that experiences a serious degradation in battery life through normal use? We're not talking having the light turned on all the time or anything, just skipping tracks, using the menu, and so on? Apple's 'over 8 hours' claim on their website is pure fiction - it's like putting a car up on a jack, putting a brick on the accelerator and then advertising it as having a top speed of 500 kilometres an hour at 1 litre of petrol per 100 kilometres efficiency - it's possible, but it's just not realistic at all.


"serious degradation" is an exaggeration. I've never had a problem with my iPod running out of batteries, and I listen to it in class, while I exercise, and soon I'll have it hooked up in my car. I understood when i BOUGHT the thing that the battery wasn't all that great, and that I'd have to constantly charge it when not in use. That didn't bother me. It still doesn't bother me. Because it's still the best MP3 player/firewire drive I've ever seen/used.

And companies have ALWAYS portrayed the best results their product can give in an ad. Some companies even portray totally unrealistic results in regards to their products. SkyyVodka seems to insinuate that if we drink their alcohol we'll all be tan, rich, with perfect firm little asses and not an inch of cellulite in sight. Do I get mad when I drink SkyyVodka and don't turn into a sultry beach babe? No. It's advertising. Do I get mad when my iPod doesn't get the maximum 8 hours battery life? No. Because it's advertising. I don't expect it to get a perfect 8 hours of battery life. Just like I don't expect my Honda to get the exact mileage that was advertised. Slutmonkey and others are right. I guess I just don't understand why people get so bent out of shape over this kind of thing...there are a lot of other corporations out there that make MUCH more serious exaggerations about their products and services than Apple. Not getting a full 8 hours of battery life on some electronic doohikey is the least of your worries.

Originally posted by stark23x
Did I just see that guy say he asked the Apple salespeople and went to *epinions* of all places, and then yell at someone for mocking his "research?"

Good lord. No wonder people hate lawyers. If that's what qualifies as "research" into a product before laying out your hard-earned cash, remind me to never hire this guy for a legal issue.

Oh look. I typed "ipod 3G battery life (http://www.google.com/search?q=ipod+3G+battery+life)" into Google, and in .27 seconds I had every piece of information I could ever want about battery life in the 3G iPod.

Man, that was *so* hard.

Oooh, oooh, epinions, heaven forbid anyone should read a site devoted to ordinary customers giving their views of products they have bought... that's no way to find out what people think of a product, how uncool.

Ok, let's look at Google. Using your search I get:

- one guy who says he gets 6 hours but he thinks his iPod may be faulty
- Apple's own 'over 8 hours' bs
- MacNN says '7.5 hours' (I would be happy with that for normal use)
- Some guy at Macrumours says 'less than the older iPods'
- TechTV says 'less than 9 hours'
- More people saying 'less than the older iPods which got 10-12'

Gee, what an idiot, I should obviously realise that I can only expect about 5-6 hours for my usage pattern based on this info... or maybe I should keep reading to search results 9999990 through 10000000?

And no, I don't think I should have to do really in depth research before buying a simple product. It not rocket science, it's a music player and it has a certain battery life. Which is not what Apple or most of the reviews (who seem to just paste in Apple's numbers) say it is.

Originally posted by aktive
So as far as I'm concerned can you please leave these forums, go buy a new MD player and go back to your sheltered 1990s existence.


Ooh, that hurts, then I wouldn't be able to enjoy your witticisms. Anyway, I'd be too busy shovelling coal into my inferior antique minidisc player to keep the record turning at 30rpm. 'Sheltered 1990s existence'... yeah, remember the 90s when audio devices played for more than 6 hours... those were the days. Sonny, fetch my dentures!

Originally posted by caitsith01

By the way (this isn't directed at you personally), can all you crybabies tell me why Apple is able to measure its units to within a jillionth of a centimetre - "0.62 inches" - when it suits them if they can't give a realistic battery measurement?

the physical deminsions of the iPod are not dependent on changing variables, like battery life, therefor a exact measuremnet can be given.

-iPod crybaby

Originally posted by Bugs
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61475

Seems pretty simple to me... I'm not a lawyer though ;)

Yeah... "iPod should play the album for approximately 10 hours." Sure. Simple. Before you say "they're talking about the 2Gs", that page was updated on 20/10/2003.

Also, that is tech support, not usually the first place I stop before buying something.

Originally posted by napaman
On the minidisc Story now. Please Man be serious Mini Disc plain sucks I Had a sony and to be honest, you idiot carring a minidisc player and +- 30 disc's along to compare it to only a Quarter Playing time of a ipod and you call minidisc portable.

Ahem... yeah. Glad you have 10,000 songs everywhere you go, pity you can't listen to more than about 80 or so before it dies. I guess after that you can always just look at your iPod, maybe pleasure yourself while imagining all the music locked up inside that little white rectangle.

I won't even bother with the MD stuff as you are clearly so open minded about it.

hehe. at least we agree on something

Shrug, I did... maybe I should be in law school ;)

Now I feel bad Mikey.. I got caught up in it too :) But, I'm doing it with a smile... just joking around really. I hope Cait is doing the same. Ok, should go play with the kids a little... later.

Oh, Mikey, grow up (or down). Some highlights of what others have said to me here:

"your incessant whining started to really annoy me"
"go back to your sheltered 1990s existence."
" frankly, I don't give a ####."
"minus 15% stupidity fee"
"really ##### ignorant"
"pretty stupid"
"Please Man be serious Mini Disc plain sucks"
"your fellow Mini-Crap users"
"No wonder people hate lawyers."
" someone does not understand sales and marketing"

I can take it. If you don't like this thread noone's making you stay. Bugs, yes, I'm not going to go and slash my wrists if others don't agree with me ;)

Originally posted by SlutMonkey
PROBABLY because the way size and battery time is measured are by nature very different. Measuring the size of an iPod is undeniably more accurate because modern manufacturing technology allows for extremely precise measurements (e.g. according to ISO standards).
Measuring battery time can never be as precise as measuring size, because there are infinitely many variables that affect power usage making it impossible to present a "standard" figure. Consider for example:
- Bitrate (higher bitrate requires more processing power)
- Listening volume
- Moving it around
- Skipping tracks
- Fiddling around (using the backlight)
- Transferring files (syncing)
- Type of music (lots of bass etc)
- Equalizer settings

Yeah, point taken. I guess I mean, obviously Apple knows that the battery life is seriously variable, but they certainly don't make it very prominent, do they? On the other hand, the good features (e.g. size) they are quite happy to give measurements down to the micron.

I would be much happier if Apple said "battery life may vary from 6-9 hours depending on use" or something to that effect, even way down in the small print. I am also disappointed that most of the serious reviews I have read do not mention the actual factors affecting battery life. Someone should do a review and get the actual play times if you do the list of activities you mention.

Originally posted by caitsith01
Oh, Mikey, grow up (or down). Some highlights of what others have said to me here:

"your incessant whining started to really annoy me"
"go back to your sheltered 1990s existence."
" frankly, I don't give a ####."
"minus 15% stupidity fee"
"really f*cking ignorant"
"pretty stupid"
"Please Man be serious Mini Disc plain sucks"
"your fellow Mini-Crap users"
"No wonder people hate lawyers."
" someone does not understand sales and marketing"

I can take it. If you don't like this thread noone's making you stay. Bugs, yes, I'm not going to go and slash my wrists if others don't agree with me ;)

Nice summary Cait... Btw, did you know that it's in human nature to attribute errors to somebody else rather than accept ones own fault? Maybe it's time to admit that your expectations were unreasonably high, and that you are using this forum as a means to avoid cognitive dissonance...

Originally posted by SlutMonkey
Nice summary Cait... Btw, did you know that it's in human nature to attribute errors to somebody else rather than accept ones own fault? Maybe it's time to admit that your expectations were unreasonably high, and that you are using this forum as a means to avoid cognitive dissonance...

Sure, I can admit that. Cognitive dissonance sucks. I definitely did have expectations of the iPod that were too high, and I wanted to believe Apple's claims about the battery, so I did. Still, there's no harm in a little venting, is there? And maybe I can warn a few others who might be in the same boat.

In any event, some of the repartee was getting quite good there for a while...

Originally posted by hmto
This is so funny especially coming from a wannabe lawyer. When he gets his first paying gig, he'll probably be the guy informing his company as to what or whatnot to include and leave out of press releases. Companies touting the greatness of a product is nothing new. Read any corporate auto press releases lately? And because you profess to be a law student it seems especially ironic, however I did not read enough to see whether you disclosed your direction in law, that you are or will become the very people you seem to be so aggravated with. You lawyers do get the benefit of hiding behind the corporate name. Go back to studying and stop wasting everyones time with your incessant whining and bellyaching. Geez, I hope I spelled those words correctly. For the rest of us pod loving creatures, rock on!!!!

Yes, yes, all lawyers are lying corporate scum, of course. It's not like the majority of lawyers work hard for their clients and are committed to participating in a system designed for justice or anything.

I have little respect for anyone who can work for a company and throw their personal morality out the window at the same time. It is also worth noting that a huge amount of the development of human rights, due process and the push to protect the citizen from the state has been done by lawyers and judges (who were typically once lawyers).

It's true that there are lawyers out there who are engage in frivolous litigation, corporate machinations and so on, but it is not even remotely fair to judge everyone by that behaviour. There are bad people everywhere.

Originally posted by caitsith01
Well, where I live cars are advertised with 'city driving' and 'highway driving' figures which are actually pretty accurate. And once again, it is illegal to make claims in advertising that are misleading.

"8 hours" isn't misleading, because it CAN get up to 8 hours of battery life. It's just rare for it to do so, for a variety of reasons. Just like it's rare for my Accord to get the exact same mileage as avertised, for a variety of reasons. Big woop.
:rolleyes:

Originally posted by stark23x
You have no idea what the word "research" means. Your argument formulation sucks, and your debate technique is awful.

Wow, don't take it too seriously or anything. I mentioned I was a law student with reference to the fact that I was able to research the fair trading laws and get a refund and now everyone is getting stuck in to me because I didn't present myself like a Supreme Court Justice on a forum for people who care about an electronic music player. It wasn't actually an invitation for personal commentary, but I guess it's easier to attack someone personally rather than their point of view. Frankly with people like you in the audience I'm more inclined to take the "iPod ##### #####" line of Internet argument.

Originally posted by stark23x
You don't understand logic, and your theory and descriptive analogies are among the worst I've read.

Well, there aren't too many descriptive analogies in 'See Spot Run.' By the way, you should become a TV psychic, you have such a great ability to read personalities based on a few lines on a computer screen.

Thanks for the debating tips, Socrates. As for yourself, you should try differentiating between how things *are* (companies lie, advertising is misleading) and how they *should be* (companies tell the truth, advertising is held up to objective standards). It is the pathetic mantra of the lazy to claim that accepting injustice is simply pragmatism and anyone who wants things to be fair is being unrealistic. Also, you should consider why you feel the need to act in such a superior manner. Your statements about how one should research a product and 'how it is' with advertising are startlingly condescending, and I note that you didn't even last one post before launching into subjective and emotive attacks ("no wonder people hate lawyers"). My theory is that you are both insecure and mentally inflexible. You must be a hit at parties, if you ever get invited to them. If you ever want to have a successful relationship with another person I would advise you to work hard on concealing your true personality.

Personally I feel vindicated by the fact that Apple refunded my money - despite initially saying they wouldn't - when I presented them with the legislation about misleading advertisments.

I also take it from your closing remark that you think (a) that poor people don't deserve decent legal representation and (b) that noone smart enough to be a good lawyer would want to defend the poor. I won't bother to respond to this other than to express a hope that one day you are put in a position where youhave no money and are falsely accused of a crime, and that someone with an actual moral compass steps in to help you.

.......

Great, now the feds have shut us down for profanity or something. Whatever happened to freedom of speech? Noone (apart from mikey) was getting all that offended, were they?

the tone of discussion in this thread is hardly appropriate for this forum. caitsith01, bugs, slutmonkey (because of profanity) this is your warning. please edit each of your posts to make them more appropriate (removing profanity...). if you have anything further to discuss about each person?s personality, take it to pm?s. any further nonsense on the boards will get you banned. each of you please re-read our forum policy (on flaming, baiting, trolling, the use of profanity...).

edit: i?ve opened the thread again, so you can edit your posts. no more new posts in this thread please!

So guys... I really understand the iPod related battery problems. I think it would be very nice if my iPod would run a few hours more with a battery charge...

BUT

the thing is:

The iPod is a lifestyle device for me and I think for even lots of people, too.

So why should I mind about this fu**in hour or two? I charge my iPod about every 4 days, so why should I mind?
If I wanted an mp3player, that played more than 6 or 8 hours, I would probably have got an iRiver IHP-120. I think this is the right device for you! Real audiophiles I wouldn't suggest to buy an iPod, because for them iRiver is the company to go for (imho).

I see the iPod as a nice, little, EXPENSIVE accesoire, that fits my personality best :) (I just left out, that the iPod has the best mp3 playing function imho, if you see over the battery runtime).

Too be fair i can see the point that caitsaith (or however his name is spelt) was trying to make. Yes Apple says that it lasts 8 hours and sometimes it doesn't and sometimes it does.

However i have a 3rd Gen 15Gig iPod and managed to go from London to Newcastle and back again by train. The total journey time was near 6.5 hours and i was scrolling, and changing tracks on the iPod in a regular fashion, maybe every other 5 tracks cos it was a song i wasn't in the mood for. Anway, my story goes on, i dont live in London and had listened to my iPod on a 30 min train ride from each way, so all in all i was pretty impressed.

The only gadget which i have which has come near its "stated" battery life is my cool Sony MPD-AP20U, which i bought before i got the iPod. For those who dont know what this is its a portable Sony CD-RW/DVD-ROM that also doubles as a mp3 CD/DVD player (Yes you can cram up to 4.7 gig on a DVD and listen to in on the machine via the headphones) Anyway this machine lasts about 10 hours and thats what it says on the box, it also has a cradle, which takes a MONSTER 8 batteries which can triple its life usage.

Anway the moral of the story is to ask around a bit more. OR since you seem to like your Ni MH batteries buy the Belkin adapter to get more battery life out of your iPod.

All I can add to this thread is that an AC adapter will charge and let you listen at your desk all day long. Not perfect but works for me. I don't often make trips where I am away from my computer or a power socket for longer than a few hours.

Turning off both the alarms seems to improve battery life a fair bit too.

A note to kradcliffe: I don't know about your products, but my electronis usually work for about as long as they are advertised. My Cell phone, my camcorder (well, my family's camcorder) and my iriver ihp-120 all have within a few minutes of the advertised battery life. I wouldn't expect anything less.

Originally posted by Optrix
However i have a 3rd Gen 15Gig iPod and managed to go from London to Newcastle and back again by train. The total journey time was near 6.5 hours and i was scrolling, and changing tracks on the iPod in a regular fashion, maybe every other 5 tracks cos it was a song i wasn't in the mood for. Anway, my story goes on, i dont live in London and had listened to my iPod on a 30 min train ride from each way, so all in all i was pretty impressed.

Well, we can't all live in countries that measure 3x10 miles, can we... :)

That train ride to Newcastle/Edinburgh is quite cool though, very quick line compared to most UK train services.

By the way, what did that mp3/dvd player cost you, and physically how big is it? It sounds kida cool...

So glad this thread was re-opened so people can edit their posts and not continue on debating a subject that no one seems to be able to fully agree on started by someone who admitted he was intentionally baiting others to argue with him. :rolleyes:

This is just going no where fast folks. I'm locking this thread down again before it goes down the toilet further...

Adam