LONG songs with dead air in the middle
You know how there are some songs, typically the last song on a disc, where the artist will perform for like 2-4 minutes or whatever then there will be nothing but dead air for like 7 minutes, only to start back up agian for the final couple minutes!?! Anyway, what I'm wondering is if there is a way to clip out that dead air so that the file size isn't so huge for what is actually a "short" song. Since I've now realized that my 15 GB iPod will not be able to hold the advertised 3,500 songs (what bitrate is this calculated at?) because I'm ripping in VBR MP3 format, I don't want to have any files that are taking up that much space (e.g. the song Spleen by Staind off their Dysfunction disc is 28.883 MB and says it's over 21 minutes long, but the song actually is only 4 1/2 minutes long in the beginning, then dead for the next 11 1/2 minutes, then it picks back up for the remaining 5 minutes or so).
Besides not choosing to d/l them to my iPod, is there a way to edit or chop out that dead air we all hate? Some of the songs are very good, but not at the price of valuable iPod disc space IMO.
Please let me know if MC9 can do this or if you know of any other programs to accomplish this.
Regards,
Jason
[1282 byte] By [
jtriest] at [2007-11-9 12:57:57]
# 1 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Yes, you can edit files in MC9. Search the help (theirs, not mine)for Editor, or WAV editor. Never played w/the feature before, but you can edit songs in MC9, I know that...
Adam
# 2 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Cool, I'll try to play around with it a little bit and see how it goes. Also, just so you know, I've installed 9.1.220 today so I'll see how thigs go. I was able to figure out how to get the album cover art to appear down in the lower left hand corner and I now have the Brushed Metal skin, so that's two of the recent issues I've asked about that are now irrelevant.
The only thing that remains is for me to see if my transfer speed (from MC to iPod) is any better. That is me ("Josey Wales") in the MC forum that posted the transfer speed issue (0.98 MB/s) when going to my iPod via a firewire-to-usb 2.0 cable. I'll try it out this afternoon and see what I get now that I'm running the latest version of MC.
Regards,
Jason/Josey
# 3 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
I was able to easily remove all the dead air within the audio tracks using the Media Editor, just like you mentioned. What an awesome feature. It looks like the possibilities of this tool are only limited by your imagination. And, as evidenced by the fact that even I could do it, it's very easy to use especially when you use their included help documents.
Thanks for the tip.
Regards,
Jason:D
# 4 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Wow, that's great. Now, this .98MB/second issue is really bugging me. I hope it's not a USB related issue.
Let us know J.
**EDIT**: Are you sure that the songs you're uploading are mp3's and that you haven't set MC9 to convert on upload? I just saw another post where a user was doing this in MMJB and he didn't realize the iPod didn't support WMA, so the songs were getting converted and as a result upload times were longer (go figure). :D
Adam
# 5 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Adam,
Earlier today I installed the beta version (9.1.221) and the transfer speed is was ultrafast. I was getting 120 MB/s! I couldn't even read the file names as they were flashing on the sync screen. I'm positive that I didn't have the "convert files" checkbox marked back when I was running 9.0.180. I'm left to believe that it was a just a bug unresolved with that version. But it wasn't a basket full of kittens with .221, as I then couldn't rip any cds. I posted on a thread over at JRiver where other users complained of the same problem and apparently they found the bug. I've since updated to beta 9.1.222 I've had no problems as of yet, although I haven't yet tried to sync. I'm pretty confident that the transfer rate will be fine, but we'll have to wait and see. I don't feel it was a USB issue with 9.0.180, I think it was just some sort of bug that didn't get addressed because of all the work that's undoubtedly going into prepping the 9.1 alpha release.
Regards,
Jason
# 6 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Adam,
I read you post in the thread over at JRiver about why my transfer speed was so fast (w/9.1.221), being that I had already loaded the songs on the iPod and only a few of them were newly sync'd files. For those new songs I noticed the transfer rate "slowed" to about 22 MB/s, which is still great.
By my joy was short lived. I reformatted the iPod just to see what my transfer speed would be when I sync'd all files (using 9.1.222) and it's actually WORSE than before, tranferring at a ridiculously slow rate of 0.89 MB/s!!!
I don't know what the deal is. One minute I think the problem is resolved, the next I'm in worse shape than I was using 9.0.180. I'm at my wits end here with this!
Any advice?:confused: :( :mad:
# 7 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Jason:
Did your iPod ever transfer fast with MC9? You mention that things were OK with .180. Do you mean you had fast transfers with that? Using USB? If that's the case then either a)some setting has changed in MC9 or b) they broke something.
Can you give us some background as to how long you've been using your iPod and all?
Adam
# 8 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Ever since I decided to purchase MC, beginning with 9.0.180, I've had terrible transfer speeds (ranging from 0.90 - 0.89 MB/s), the one exception being this afternoon when I tried with 9.1.221 (see below). Since that time I've switched to 9.1.222 and the transfer speed is the slowest it's ever been.
I'm connected via the firewire-to-USB cable Apple advertised on the Apple website. I've been using MC now for a little over a week or so, and only a week before that I'd purchased my 15 GB iPod. MC has never transfered fast for me (except for when I "thought" it was with 9.1.221, but then you correctly pointed out that since all but a half dozen songs were new among the playlist being sync'd the iPod really wasn't copying anything other than the new ones - that's why it seemed like it was going so fast). I'm running a Dell 8250 2.8 GHz, Windows XP Pro, 1024 MB DDR RAM, etc., so hardware isn't the issue. There's something goofy with MC as far as I can tell. There must be a ton of other PC users out there w/MC that are connected via USB, and not to a firewire card, so I don't understand what's going on.
MMJB was, what I perceived at the time, slow to transfer songs, but it was faster than I'm seeing with MC, that's for sure. Ephpod was fantastic for transfering. Those are the only other two programs I've tried. I have to believe it's a problem others are having as well - apparently not that many other, but I have read some posts by users claiming the same problem.
Is there any other specifics you might need to know in order to help? If so, please let me know. I'm all ears now.......
Regards,
Jason
# 9 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
I get about 8mb/s with a fresh synch.
I would recommend posting this at jriver, something is definitely off here. Post your system info (you can get it from MC9 by going into help and choosing system info, it will automatically go to your clipboard so you can paste it into your message at jriver).
Are you absolutely sure you are plugged into a USB 2.0? Those are the type of speeds I'd expect with a USB 1.1....
dmt1 at 2007-11-15 17:30:02 >
# 10 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Are you sure you have a USB 2 port and that it's operating at USB 2 speeds. It sounds like your only transfering at USB1 speeds.
edit: I didn't notice the post above.
# 11 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Well, my computer (Dell 8250) was supposed to only ship with all USB 2.0 ports, 8 of them. But now I'm starting to wonder if this is in fact the case. Utilizing USB 1.1 to transfer would give me results (I would think) consistent with what I've been seeing. When I look inside the Device Manager of My Computer, I notice that there seems to be a mix of USB 2.0 and USB 1.1. I have a call into Dell right now to try and help me figure this out once and for all see I'll have to wait an see if I'm reading this right or not.
I would think they wouldn't screw something like this up, especially since you don't see computers anymore that ship with anything other than USB 2.0 (at least the higher priced ones). Maybe I'll try swapping USB ports for a while and see what happens.
Keep up the brainstorming though, I think we're getting somewhere and I really appreciate it.
Regards,
Jason
# 12 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Another thing is you might have to install the USB 2.0 drivers depending on your computer. I know you said you had a Dell. Go over to Dell's support website and punch in your service tag and see if you can download the USB 2.0 drivers for your computer.
# 13 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Thanks Doc, I'll give that a try. I spent over an hour on the phone Saturday afternoon with their "Tech Support" and didn't seem to get anywhere. It certainly doesn't help that all of Dell's tech support is contracted out to India, meaning that if you're are lucky enough to get past the language barrier you still have to spend twice as long repeating yourself to one another because you can't tell exactly what the other one is saying.
The technician asked me to run the Utilities & Drivers disc that came with my computer to see if I could get at the USB drivers that way but I haven't yet tried that. I did look at the disc contents and couldn't seem to find the USB drivers anywhere - any ideas on this? I did however plug my iPod into a different USB port (the third one I've tried) and I did notice that the transfer speed dramatically improved. The good news however stops here, because while I was synching my playlist to my iPod I kept getting an error message saying something like (forgive me because I'm at work and don't have the exact wording with me because all my iPod stuff is done at my home computer), "Capacity Exceeded, File Tranfer terminated." This doesn't make any sense because I have a 15 GB iPod and was only trying to send about 5 GB of mp3s over at the time. So, I then reformatted my iPod (from within MC) and tried again, thinking that whatever was on my iPod at the time would be wiped clean and hopefully I wouldn't have the same problem. This wasn't the case, and the same error message appeared. For some reason it's telling me (as I interpret it at least) that I don't have enough disc space on my iPod to hold the playlist I'm transferring, but this is not the case. It tells me right before I sync that I will still have 8.0 GB remaining after synching, so it makes no sense.
Problem after problem after problem. I'm committed to making MC work out for me, especially now that I've paid $40 for it, but I will say that I didn't have any problems with MMJB or Ephpod. They do have their shortcomings, I'll admit that, but they always did what I asked them to do without any unforseen issues. I mean, I did (admittedly foolishly) pay the $60 for the lifetime free upgrades package for MMJB so that's still an option, but I love the flexibility and encoding qualities of MC, along with the playlist abilities so I want this to work - so far it's been mostly headaches.:confused:
I don't know what's going on with my USB ports or why I even have any issues with them in the first place, or with the capacity error messages, synching, etc. but if you guys can continue to work me through these issues I would truly appreciate it. I look forward to hearing your comments.
Regards,
Jason
# 14 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Jason:
We can get the capacity issues fixed, no problem. No disrespect meant sir, but that has to be a "user-error" issue. ;) What I would do is Right-click the iPod and select sync. Then, make sure to expand all the Playlist groups. Make sure you don't have an additional playlist selected for syncing that you may not have noticed before.
Really, it's a pretty simple process once you get things set up. I think that your speed issue was the major hurdle and that's not related to MC9 at all.
So, try again, or instead of doing sync (just as a proof of concept), right-click the playlist and select Send to the iPod. But check what playlists you have picked to sync first.
Reformatting the iPod from w/in MC9 will delete all the tunes off of it.
Adam
# 15 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Adam,
No offense taken, as I'm usually quick to agree with someone when they tell me the problem is likely "self-inflicted." When performing syncs in the past, I've been very careful NOT to check any of the boxes other than the "All Music" box. In trying to get these issues resolved I've expanded each tree (hit the + sign) just to be sure of what I was trying to send. I look, double check and then looked a third time just to be sure every time prior to a sync. Before synching it tells you the "Space Available After Sync," and in this case it verified what I thought, which was that I would still have 8.0 GB of space remaining (made sense since I was attempting to send my entire library to date, which was about 940 songs or so, or roughly 5.8 GB and I'd just reformatted the iPod freeing up the whole 13.9 GB of space on its HD).
Just for the sake of trying I'll follow your second tip and try highlighting the entire music collection, right click and send to my iPod and see if that works. I'm also going to try to reformat my iPod using the iPod Manager AND within MC. I don't have anything on my iPod right now so fear of losing any songs isn't an issue. I'll also try to sync the iPod by right clicking on my F-drive (iPod) and selecting Sync, then carefully checking to be sure I'm only sending the All Music box, then clicking OK. I've also clicked on the Options tab within the sync screen just to be sure nothing at all is checked in there and never once have I found anything checked (convert files, etc.).
Does this make sense or did I misunderstand your reply. Please let me know. You know I'll let you guys now how things go for me.
Regards,
Jason
# 16 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Makes total sense. And I can't for the life of me figure out why that would happen. Just seems strange.
Just so everything is clean, let's do this:
1. Reformat the iPod w/the iPod Updater
2. Reformat in MC9
3. Update your MC9 Library, by clicking on File>Library>Update Library. Make sure you check the "delete missing files" option. Let that complete.
4. Select the smartlist that you made (your all-music one), then check to see at the bottom how big that is. Make sure it's less than what your iPod will hold.
5. Right-click the iPod and select sync, select the Smartlist you've made and fire away.
That's about as clean as you can get it.
Adam
# 17 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
You might want to restore your iPod with the updater. This way we know your working with a clean slate. With all the problems you have been having this might clear up alot of them.
BTW, after you restore the iPod with the updater you have to format it from within MC.
# 18 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Originally posted by ashawley
Just so everything is clean, let's do this:
1. Reformat the iPod w/the iPod Updater
2. Reformat in MC9
</snip>
Hey, Doc: Didn't I just say what you said. ;)
Adam
# 19 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Yep we must have posted at the same time. I didn't see that before I posted.
Hey aleast we agree.
# 20 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
hehe, we're in violent agreement then sir! :D
Adam
# 21 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Well, here's what I've done and seen since trying your suggestions. I reformatted the iPod using the iPod Manager, then I opened MC and formatted my iPod for MC, meaning I should be now working with a clean iPod, correct? Then I right clicked on the iPod and selected Sync. I made sure that the only fire (checkbox) selected for synching was the "All Music" playlist, then I clicked on the Options box just to make sure that I didn't have anything selected inside here (nothing was). I then reconfirmed that All Music was the only checkbox marked. I noticed a message on the bottom of the sync box that said, "Space Available After Sync: 8.0 GB" so I knew that I was only trying to send about 940 mp3s (everything/the only stuff I have ripped so far and the only thing inside MC). Then I clicked OK to begin the synching and things started off promising. I noticed a transfer rate of just over 10 MB/s, but this only lasted for about 10 seconds, at which point I got that familiar error message, "Available Size Exceeded. Transfer Cancelled."
Then, to make things worse my iPod drive (F:) completely disappears after hitting OK to close the error message box. I cannot regain my iPod directory unless I completely restart my computer (simply closing MC and opening it again doesn't do it)!
Again, I'm not a patient person and this is driving me nuts. If it's not one things it's another. I venture to say that if we can figure out what this problem is the result of another will step in its place in no time.
Am I missing something here? Am I doing something wrong? Did I misunderstand your recommendations? Really, I'm asking sincerely because I don't know what else to do. Please let me know. By the time I get this straightened out the Gen. 4 models will likely be out.....:confused: :mad:
Regards,
Jason
# 22 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Jason:
Let's try not to use the All Music auto-smartlist. Maybe there's a bug in that one.
Create a new smartist. Name it whatever you like. Then, add a rule w/the rules wizard. Hopefully you know how to do that, there's a little drop-down arrow at the left-hand side of the Search criteria (above all the songs).
Click that, select Add Rule>Advanced>File Type (it may not be under Advanced, don't have access to MC9 right now). Anyway, on the list that comes up, select MP3. Click OK.
All right, check the size of that list. It will show at the bottom. Make sure it's < the iPod's max size.
Try your sync again w/just this selected.
Now, one other thing. Make sure you have the latest version of MC9. Don't know if I've asked this before. I'm pretty sure you're using the latest version, (at least .222). You don't need to be using .223 if you don't want.
Something is weird here as you're the only person I've ever seen w/this problem.
Don't give up man! This is something we can fix, I've never had problems like this w/MC9, so something is strange.
Adam
# 23 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Adam,
Thanks for sticking with me on this, I appreciate it! When I get home from work tonight I'll try your suggestions and let you know how it goes. I don't have any experience with creating playlists, adding filters, editing, etc. because to this point I haven't evne been able to do ANYTHING other than rip using MC - no transferring to iPod as is well documented throughout this thread. I've also reinstalled MMJB and Ephpod because I've been stuck with a blank iPod now for over a week as a result of all these problems I'm having and it's driving me insane (not claiming I'm certain they're the result of MC or not, I'll just say that despite their shortcomings, MMJB and Ephpod both worked fine for me).
I do however still hope I can get MC to work for me as it is clearly superior in many important areas. If anybody else has any recommendations or suggestions, please post....
Regards,
Jason
# 24 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Well, just follow the help guide I put together. It has a section on how to make smartlists. That's what you should do. Make that smartlist (the All MP3 one) and then we'll see how it works.
Oh, something else. When you get to the sync dialog box, make sure you always keep the "Delete songs not in sync" and "Update Tags" checkboxes both checked. It's just a good idea to make sure everthing that you change in MC9 is reflected on the iPod and that only the songs in the sync are on the iPod.
Adam
# 25 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Jason:
I posted this in the JRiver thread, thought you might check here as well...
I've thought of a little test that we haven't tried yet. I feel quite lame that I haven't thought of this before...
Let's copy some tunes to the iPod using My Computer just to test out your connection.
Grab like 50 mp3s. Copy them and then just paste them to the root of your iPod drive in My Computer.
See how long it takes. If the speed is typical (1 song a second) it should take, well, 50 seconds or so. I'd say the range should be w/in 1 to 1 1/2 minutes.
If it takes longer than that, we've nailed your issue down to something w/your computer. If it takes about 1-2 minutes, then we know that something's up w/MC9 and specifically it's ability to work w/USB.
Adam.
# 26 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Well, here's my latest update. Trials and Tribulations, part 25:
Last night I spent most of my night on the phone with the tech support staff from both Dell and Apple trying hone in on the problem. Here's where that "got me":
Dell: While stumbling over the language barrier hurdle (all Dell tech support is contracted out to India), my goal was to verify that I had the right drivers installed for my USB 2.0 ports. We've discussed how my transfer speeds (0.89 MB/s) seem to be more consistent with USB 1.1 or 1.0 and not 2.0 so I thought maybe somehow my USB drivers were lost or corrupted. I felt it would be a fairly simple process, but I didn't know how to do it on my own so I called on Dell for guidance. We talked for about an hour trying various things and at the end of our discussion the tech rep said that I now could be sure I had the right drivers in place. I have to say that I'm not very confident in her statement, mainly because they follow a premade step-by-step guide to troubleshoot customer problems as opposed to going off of experience and personal knowledge. Nevertheless I am forced (until I find out how to do this on my own) to believe that I have the right drivers in place and my USB ports should not be an issue. Then I decided to call Apple...
Apple: I wanted to talk to Apple about the error message I was getting - the one that was telling me that I didn't have enough space available to complete the file transfer, then it would terminate the sync and then I would lose my F-drive icon within MC (not the exact wording of the message obviously, but you get the idea). The Apple rep was quick to point out that they only supported MMJB version 7.5 and nothing else. He asked me if I did a complete iPod restore (which I did), if I was running the latest iPod software version 2.0.1 (which I am) and I had formatted my iPod for use with the various applications I was trying to use (which I also had done). He basically had two comments for me. First, he said that I should not be using anything other than MMJB v7.5 or he wouldn't be able to help me. I told him that I new of many other users of other apps (MC, Ephpod, XPlay, and even MMJB v8.0) that weren't having any issues but he insisted that I use MMJB v7.5 or he wouldn't be able to help me. Second, he said that I could very easily have a malfunctioning iPod and there could be a problem with its hard drive. He told me to go back to using MMJB v7.5 and see what happens. He also gave me a website link to use if I wanted to send it in for service (inspection/repair).
At the end of the phone conversations I was no closer to a solution and felt as frustrated and depressed as I have since getting the iPod. Here I have this brand new iPod and I can't use it for one reason or another. It's my $400 paperweight, along with the costs of buying MMJB and all their future releases ($60, I know, I'm an idiot but it was before I knew about MC) and the $40 I just shelled out for MC, plus various iPod accessories (FM transmitter, firewire-to-usb adapter cable, etc.) - all in all we're talking about $550 worth of stuff that doesn't work!
Adam - I'll try your latest suggestion tonight and see what happens. Forgive me if I'm less than optimistic about it working, but I do appreciate you help throughout this ordeal.
Apple can't help me because they claim it's a problem with my computer or the application I using (if other than MMJB v7.5), Dell can 't help me because they say it's a problem with the iPod or the software I'm running with it, and JRiver can't help me because apparently my problems are the result of a bad iPod or something screwed up with my computer. WHO CAN HELP! Running in circles, not getting anywhere.
I feel a little better having let that out - sorry about that:rolleyes: but you can probably imagine what I'm going through. Still open for ideas if you've got em.
Jason
# 27 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Jason:
Try the copying of files through My Computer. This at least will nail down the issue of whether you have USB1 or 2. No doubt about it, it will.
Then we can move on from there...
And if we're still haveing problems, we'll just send Chris (dmt1) out to your house. He lives in Oshkosh...can't be that far away. :D
Adam
# 28 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Yeah, I'd be lieing if I said I didn't also notice dmt1 was from nearby Oshkosh and thought the same thing - it's about an hour and a half drive north for him. I'll try to copy songs using the Windows Explorer like you mentioned (just drag a couple songs over to my iPod drive) and I'll let you know how that goes. Any idea how to tell what the file transfer speed is while that's taking place?
If any other thoughts cross your mind be sure to post.
Many thanks...
Jason
# 29 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Well, here's another disappointing update.
On a side note, I installed Windows Service Pack 1 tonight. I thought I already had it but apparently not. Anyway, it couldn't hurt anything and I figured it may install some new, more appropirate USB 2.0 drivers.
Now, back to the update. Adam, you suggested I try to copy a few mp3s over to my iPod using Windows Explorer, so here's that frustrating story. I tried to copy over one album's worth of songs (9 songs in this case). The following is the error message that appeared, "Cannot copy 09 - Will it Bleed. Cannot find specified file. Make sure you specify the correct path and filename." Not sure what that means, but regardless it didn't work.
So then I tried to create a playlist that only included a couple of mp3s within MC9, then I wanted to try to sync only that small playlist - 4 songs. I made sure that "Delete songs not in sync" and "Update Tags" was check, then I verified that my new (small) playlist was the only one checked for the sync and hit OK. Here's that error message, "Available size exceeded, transfer cancelled." It did manage to copy one of the four songs, but still a dismal failure. That particular playlist was only 27.3 MB, and it was being sent to a 15 GB iPod with absolutely nothing on it so it makes no sense whatsoever.
Really, again, I'm out of ideas and continue to have no patience left:confused: . What in the hell else is there left to try? I've been out of ideas, and your ideas have been great but unforrunately I can't seem to get anything to work.
I'll leave to floor open to you guys again. Where do we go from here? What's left to try? I'm all ears....again.
Regards,
Jason
# 30 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Wait. You got that error message from windows explorer? Jason, are you on MSN Messenger or Windows Messenger? Can we chat live? That is just too weird that you couldn't do it in windows explorer.
I'd love to do remote desktop connection and get to try this directly on your PC. It can be done...I'm taking it you have XP.
Adam
# 31 Re: LONG songs with dead air in the middle
Adam,
I do have Windows XP Pro, so we could do some sort of remote manager via MSN messenger if you would be willing to try it out. I don't know exactly where you're located, but the most convenient times for me would be anytime between 6 and 11 pm C.S.T. If this sound like it'll work for you, PM me and I'll give you whatever details you need to make it happen.
Yes, the first error message that I noted did occur in Windows Explorer. The second error message occurred while running MC. I also tried, but did not mention, transferring the files using Ephpod and also got a "available size exceeded" error message. Like I said, I'm fresh out of ideas so if you're willing to try remote manager, please let me know.
I appreciate the offer and hope we can make it work. And one final comment, I think it's worth at least entertaining the idea that perhaps my iPod is dysfunctional or faulty. I've already spoken to Apple about the steps that would need to be taken in order for me to send it in for service if we find that we cannot seem to make it work. Funny thing is, I find myself wishing I'd bought the 30 GB model for the extra $100 now that it's obvious I won't be able to fit the advertised 3,500 songs on my 15 gigger. Wish there was some way I could turn back time and change my choice, but whatever. Just thought I'd mention that.
Regards,
Jason
