please help a newbie with volume issues in mc9

Yes, you can do this with MC9...But first you're going to need to analyze all your songs, if they weren't ripped in MC9 (if they were ripped in MC9, they were automatically analyzed). Analyzing all your tunes is going to take a chunk of time, but once it's done, you'll be able to use the normalization (and you only have to analyze once).

Use the autosmartlist to see which songs need to be analyzed--expand autosmartlist (music), and pick the smartlist titled "task--need audio analysis" or whatever it says--this will pull up all your songs needing analysis. choose say 20 or 30 songs(or all of them if you have the time), and then select analyze audio--I think it's in tools or options.

Next (or first, doesn't really matter which order you do this part), download build .215 from the Jriver site. This one has the normalization option. Connect your ipod, right click your ipod, and choose the normalization option down at the bottom--you might also want to increase the gain as well, but try synching just with normalizing first--if the songs sound to soft, increase the gain. Then go ahead and synch. I don't know how you're transferring files, but if you use the "synchronize" option, when you right click on the ipod, this seems to work best. Just choose the playlists you want to send over, and press "OK"--not "select all". If you don't have any playlists, make a smartlist, title it All MP3, and all your MP3s will automatically be in it. If you have other files besides MP3's in your library, you'll have to modify the smartlist with an MP3 only command.

Hope this all makes sense, but if you don't upgrade to .215 you can't do it, and if you don't analyze your audio first, it won't work--just ask Adam or Timmy..

thanks for the help. just to clarify: all my songs were ripped usig mc9--does that change what i need to do?

also, please see my post re ripping--my mad dog 52x sux!!! what's a good fast cdrw for ripping?

thank you all very much
this forum rules

I really don't know much about good vs. bad drives. I've got a Sony drive that I got for $100 or so that works really well. Can't remember the specs, but for the most part you should be OK w/anything.

You might want to post your problem over at the Media Center 9 board at JRiver...they will get to you really quick and know all the ins and outs of different drives...

Adam

Hmm . . . this is an interesting thread. Is this an issue that I should be concerned about as I rip my CD collection to an external hard drive using MC9? As I've mentioned before, I'm pre-Ipod and want to be prepared. Am I going to have songs all over the map in terms of volume once I synch to the Ipod? Am I then going to have to adjust the volume every time on the Ipod when I switch from song to song, thereby draining my battery much faster?

Chris and Adam -- do you do volume normalization? Do you fiddle with your Ipod volume much of the time? Is the normalization option on MC9 (I bought the 9.0 version, not the beta)? Does nomalization mess with my pristine VBR mp3's in any permanent way? I ripped most all my CD's on MC9, but have some MP3's from a friend integrated into my database. I suppose those haven't been analyzed.

What do you guys do?

This is an important topic, as I imagine that many MC9/Ipod users will want to know how to normalize the volume on their collection. MMJB, as inferior a product as it is, has this option. It's good to hear that MC9 version 9.1 has it. But is it worth the trouble?

In clarifying the worth of normalization, please help me out with a few questions:

1) I bought the fully-tested version of MC9. You say I need to upgrade to the beta 9.1 to get this feature. I don't feel like risking my MC9 stability until 9.1 is smooth sailing. Moreover, I won't be getting my Ipod for a few months, so volume normalization is not a priority just yet. But I don't want to waste half of my Ipod battery on volume adjustment once I buy it. Nevertheless, perhaps I can wait until 9.1 is more stable in a month or two before undergoing this normalization process?

2) I looked at my library. So far, I have a 9.294 GB collection of music. Of that collection, 3.411 GB needs audio analysis (734 files). The good news is that most of my collection has been analyzed. The bad news is that I have over 700 files that still need to be. What should I do and when? How long does it take to analyze 700 files? Why do you recommend doing them only 30 at a time?

3) I listen to about 60% jazz and orchestral movie soundtracks, 25% pop and rock, and 15% audio drama (both new and old). Does volume normalization work for the range of music? In a nutshell, how does it work?

4) I have about 10 MP3-CD's of old-time radio that I have yet to import to MC9. This is potentially 3-5 GB of unanalyzed files. When I get my Ipod, I want to have access to this library of old-time radio. But now I am concerned -- I don't want to introduce more gigs of unanalyzed files to MC9 if it's going to slow me down in this (necessary?) volume normalization process. I already have 700+ files to deal with.

Isn't there way to do a partial normalization, only with the files that have been analyzed? When I'm listening to the unanalyzed OTR, in that scenario, I'd deal and do the manual adjustment. Otherwise, I'd enjoy the benefits of 90% of my normalized collection.

5) I noticed in my CD ripping that in the CD Rip (copy) dialogue box, MC9 says "normalizing" for a split-second in between when it says "copying" and "encoding." Is this volume normalization? If so, does that mean I don't have to do anything else?

I like the idea of volume normalization, but have my concerns and suspicions with the process. Is it voodo magic?

EDIT: Hmm . . . I began doing audio analysis on some of my 700 unanalyzed files using MC9. It's going fairly quickly. Doesn't seem like such a bad process. Tell me, can I do audio analysis on my database while ripping and encoding? It's letting me do it, but are there any risks? I love being able to multi-task on MC9 and be able to rip and play and organize all at the same time. Please verify that that's okay.

EDIT 2: I notice that it takes much longer for MC9 to analyze audio of an old-time radio show than a song. Despite the fact that an OTR 30 minute show may only be 6 MB in size, it takes much longer to analyze it than an equivalently sized song. I assume this is because of the BPM quotient which is dependent on running time, not file size. So obviously it's going to take a lot more time to analyze all of my OTR mp3's. When I import my 10 MP3-Cd's of OTR to MC9, it may take forever to analyze the audio.

Again, is it possible to normalize volume for everything but old time radio/audio drama/books on tape? Does the Ipod/MC9 setup REQUIRE that all files synched to the Ipod be normalized? If so, it's going to take a while for me to normalize the old-time radio mp3's. Is there a way of fast-analyzing them when I import the MP3's from the CD's?

Yez:

Yes, yes, no, yes, no, no, yes, yes, sometimes, and maybe...But not nessarily in that order.

I agree with Adam 100%. And Yez, on behalf of Adam and myself, I want to thank you, because answering your posts has resulted in a significant improvement in our typing skills...:D

The normalization thing in version 9.0 isn't worth it. You'd have to do it everytime you synch, and, unless you're very patient, I doubt you'll do it...

Bottom line:

1. Get 9.1.
2. Analyze all your audio.
3. Synch and normalize the volume.
4. Don't Worry.:D

(1,2, and 4 can be done in any order, but you must do 1 and 2 before number 3).

Thanks for your prompt attention, Adam and Chris.

In matters of MC9 and "the big rip" project, I aim to be thorough and get the best results. That's why I followed Chris's plan of using the EAC/Lame 3.92 encoder with MC9. If I had been overly 'conservative,' I might not have opted for such a customized plan. I might have just stayed with the defaults. But my instinct for thoroughness and desire to get the best out of the existing technology drove me to Chris's 3.92 solution.

A few months ago, I barely knew anything about working with MP3's. When my family gave me a Rio S50 as a gift, I quickly learned how to use WMP and RealOne to rip a bunch of CDs, but was quite dissapointed with the softwares' ways. I also didn't feel like I was building up much of a library because of my limited storage options.

Onced I got excited by the 30gb Ipod, I realized that I had to first embark on "the big rip" of our extensive CD collection. But I needed two things: a good music management program and, as I would later learn, an external hard-drive.

You guys sold me on MC9 and the external hard-drive. And it's been so awesome! I've already ripped my favorite CD's from ten years ago and have them at the tip of my fingertips with MC9. I'm getting much more replay value out of my music collection than ever before. I enjoy using MC9 much more than WMP or RealOne. Thanks for leading me through the process. I hope that my questions and your answers help out others in the IpodLounge and MC9 communities.

Also, thanks for answering my questions above. The one thing that I'd still like you to address is why it takes two to three times as long to analyze low-quality 6 MB old time radio files than 6 MB contemporary pop songs. This will make the analysis process take much longer. But I understand from Adam that if I let some of my OTR files slide, it will assign an average value. That's fine because my OTR playlists will be very separate from my music playlists. When I'm in OTR-listening mode, I won't mind fiddling with the volume. After all, a show is 30 minutes long, so I won't need to fiddle with the volume every 3-4 minutes like in a music song.

So, the upshot of all of this is that I now should upgrade to MC9.1. Okay. Here are my followup questions (you really thought that you could tell me to upgrade to new software and NOT get followup questions from me?!!):

1. What's the best link for 9.1 downloads?

2. Three days ago, I paid $40.00 for version 9.0 and got a registration program. Do I now have to buy 9.1? Or is the upgrade free?

3. My concern with 9.1 is that I'd have to download daily 'builds' and 'patches' to keep this beta program relatively bug free. Is that what you guys do? If so, what patches do I need?

4. I assume that the upgrade to MC9.1 doesn't mess up my existing database in any way. Anything I need to know about this issue before I upgrade?

5. Will upgrading MC9 keep my EAC/Lame external encoder intact?

6. After reading Jimmy's post above, I'll ask a followup question for him -- can he reverse the volume normalization on his Ipod and revert to the original state (where only MC9, not the Ipod, knows his replay values)?

Besides, if you normalize too much, you'll go blind...

Ok, point taken--I 've been using normalize in the other threads...Question of semantics--what should we call the volume leveling? Perhaps volume leveling?

1. Didn't happen to me.

2. Not sure what you mean by this. Obviously to some degree. Just apply it and try it for yourself. You can always turn off the replay gain feature

3. It's stored as a database value in the iPod's database, so there's no need to reupload the file. You just do a sync w/Update Tags checked and it zooms through your songs and applies the values. Takes < 1 minute for 3000 songs.

Adam

1. When you turn on Replay Gain, does it affect the way volume works when playing music directly from MC9.1? In MC9, which I'm still using, is some kind of volume levelling already happening when I play music (all audio analyzed)?

2. So, to recap, if one were to reverse the Replay Gain on the Ipod and restore to 'normal,' one would basically be deleting a database of numbers that level the volume? And, then, if one were to check on Replay Gain again, you'd just upload the database of values? (I don't have my Ipod yet, but want to understand the feature and how its reversability works.)

3. So, Chris, your concern is that MC9.1 may not allow for a high enough volume when you check the levelling feature? Tell me, what is the 'untouched' volume in db? Could you please explain to me what tweaking power the user has to adjust the Replay Gain feature? I don't understand -- the feature automatically levels the volume, but then you go back and twek the 'gain.' Does that mean that you control the 'min' and 'max' levels in the levelling process? What is the gain?

4. Is the "play" box in the same location on MC9.1 as it is in MC9? Other than Replay Gain, what features do you guys like about MC9.1?

Answers to Yez:
1. If you turn it on in MC9 (through DSP studio) it does. I found out this was causing my volume problems.

4. There are tons of features we like more in MC9.1. I don't have time to list them, but trust me. :D

And with regard to number three: (Yez, you ask so many questions, we've decided to answer them by committee, othewise it becomes a full time job :).)

These are two seperate functions--if you ever update to 9.1 you'll see. Basically, you level the volume of all your songs with the volume leveling, and then you can increase (or decrease) the max volume with the gain. The volume leveling works just fine, but it causes your songs to be equalized at what appears to be a substantially less volume at max. Hence the need for the gain. The gain may need to be tweaked by Jriver so we can go higher--I'm going to turn it up all the way (12db) with my next synch tonight, and see what I get. If it's not loud enough (Or if Timmy already thinks it's not loud enough), then we should post over at Jriver--the gain is still in development, and they have always been receptive to input when developing things--if I recall, Steve has been relying on Adam's input on the gain a fair amount already. Bottom line is it's a work in progress, and I'll bet they'll try to tweak it to our satisfaction if we ask nicely...

Hi all,

Just wanted to let you know that this thread helped me a great deal with my songs.

I had over 1200 songs that had been ripped using CDex.

When I loaded them onto the ipod all was well.

I started really listening to them yesterday and noticed that the volume was wildly different on the songs.

I then read your thread abd did exactly what you said. I analysed the songs last night. I left it running and went to bed. In the morning all songs analysed, bar 1. It turns out I could not even play this one, so just deleted it.

I then set the replay gain when synching and set the gain to +10db.

It then re-synched and added the tags.

Now the sound is perfect. A good volume on each one at about 70% volume setting. I may try and adjust to 11db, will see.

Anyway, thought you may like to know.

Paul

Adam,

Sorry to ask again. It is about the alarm. This is now my only niggling problem. It seems that the alarm only plays playlists created by MMJB. Any ideas how we can get MC9 to make a playlist that the alarm can play or also to get someone to confirm this.

It seems noone has replied to my thread on the general forum about this.

Thanks,

Paul

Hi Adam,

The "beep" still showing after the playlist has been selected is an ipod problem and I have already seen this mentioned over at the apple forums, however, they say that whatever playlist you had highlighted in the playlist area will start playing when the alarm comes on.

In another forum, however, someone said that the playlist option only works if the playlist has been created in MMJB, I presume a .m3u playlist.

I will try and post this at jriver, but think it may be the way that the ipod has been designed as the partner is MMJB.

Thanks Adam.

I presume you will post this as you know what you are doing over there, however if you give me a link to do this, I do not mind doing it.

If you go to device setting and highlight the F: drive (normally) for you ipod and right click. You will then see an option at the bottom that says something like adjust replay gain. Here you can set it. I have adjusted it to +11db

In addition there is then an option you must check to adjust replay gain while synching which I think is just above the adjust replay gain option ( I am at work now so do not have MC9 on my work pc so not 100% sure)

I am sure Adam will come in with the belt and braces answer

Cheers,

Paul

Are we talkingabout MC 9.1 beta? I'be been trying to find these settings and I haven't been able to using my version of MC 9.1. I think I'm using 9.1.220.

I don't have any of the options that you have described Adam. Instead, I just have normalize, force conversion... .etc.