The Otto Issue

It's a private board, so you can do whatever you want. But by my reading, he didn't call anyone a "gutless coward" nor could you even read the initial message as saying that he wanted to. Just as I can say that I'm not killing anyone doesn't mean that I want to.

I think it's especially impressive here that you choose to imply that much from Otto's statement without giving him any benefit of the doubt of the implications of the statement that a different forum would be more appropriate.

In light of Otto's recent contribution to the Stars/Windows Software thread, I think it's very likely that the quality of discussion on iPodLounge will only decline.

Should Otto have been willing to apologize? Possibly, if offense was actually taken. Should he be kicked off the board for failing to apologize when none was demanded by the person theoretically offended? Absolutely not. Does iPodLounge have the right to do so anyway? Yup. It's their board.

Just my 2 cents,
Rob

ok, since I've known Otto on other forums for almost two years, it's my opinion that he didn't insult Bob nor was it an implied insult and he did put a smiley in there as well.
Sorry John, but I think you over reacted there. It's not like you were dealing with a snot nosed 12 year old.

The point was he didn't need to lay down the law, IMO. There was no insult, implied or otherwise.
I'll say that I wish Otto hadn't started to delete his posts though.

Right, I have been silent on this matter until now, but as the discussion in which this remark came up in was mixed in between posts between myself and Otto, I did feel his veiled reference to "gutless coward" was directed at me.
No doubt at all.
I sat and re-read the post several times and came to the conclusion he referred to me.
I did not reply as I had said all I wished on the matter and to debate it any further was pointless, as Otto was pretty obvious in his stance that I was wrong and he was the champion of all you downtrodden iPod owners.

Accusations that I was being overly sensitive would have followed and the thread would have suffered.

I tried to take the discussion off the board by PM'ing Otto at 12.25am - to address his "issues" with the forum rules etc.
But looking at his replies after that time he doesn't like to back down.

As he said "You know, I've been a moderator of forums for a long, long time,..." then perhaps he would appreciate it is not an easy 'job' and should have been a bit more circumspect in his choice of words, be they offered in jest or as a actual insult.

Otto decided to take this onto another level by deleting posts, refusing to admit he may have been wrong or being adult enough to say sorry, even if no offense had been taken.
I have apologised to other members before when I have said something they may have misconstrued. It involved no pain at all. But sadly Otto could not see the point being made by several people.

Sorry, but this is absolutely ridiculous. What happend is in essence a microcosm of what is wrong in the lounge.

I have run into Bob in more threads than I can count, and these encounters are characterized by a great sense of humor, and a sense of evenhandeness--I've seen him literally bend over backwards in threads giving people the benefit of the doubt when they have been rude, and giving people in such situations ample warning, and ample opportunity to make amends. All the mods are great, but Bob is one of the best, IMHO.

Otto was incredibly helpful, and it's a shame he's not part of the lounge. But all they asked of him was to say "sorry, didn't mean that way." What's the big deal? When I first started posting here, I unintentionally stepped on a mods toes, saw how what I wrote could be considered offensive despite my intention for it not to be (it was a poor attempt at humor which backfired), apologized for it, tried to learn from it to be a little more careful in the future, and move on...I doubt the mod I offended even remembers it.

This SHOULDN'T have been a big deal. A simple "Oh, I didn't mean it that way" would have been the end of it. That's what usually happens in these situations, and we all move on. Otto chose to take a different route, it truly is a shame, but what else could the mods do in this situation?

If you think things are bad now, wait and see what happens if it's declared open season on the mods, and one by one they all leave--that's what's staring you in the face if people are going to be allowed to attempt to humiliate the mods, or any other members of the forums for that matter...

And Southside, despite the fact that we bump into each other in threads, and disagree on most of the things we post on, I think it would be a shame for you to leave over something as trivial as this, you're a valuable member of the lounge, but it's your choice...

Ok, done venting...

I don't own or run this place and I don't know how many people visit this place, but...

I'm under the impression that if the mods butt out and let things run themselves (a mean way of saying to just ignore such comments, let things be, and move on), all this can be avoided. In other words, if you didn't push Otto the first time and then repeatedly after that, then Otto wouldn't have anything else to say. Do you seriously think that this place will go down the crapper if you don't have to interject every time something very slightly negative arises? I guess Otto could come off as a jerk, but at the same time I think anyone (lurker or registered) who reads this feels like the mods are turning this into a big issue and doing their job or whatever too seriously, when in reality everything ipod-related is meaningless in the world.

I think if you stop playing mommy and daddy and don't try to be the police, and everyone won't act like kids. The only difference between MTV and here is that it's documented in words instead of video. Otherwise, this whole this is stupid. My personal opinion is that there are too many mods with too heavy hands. Would it be so bad to just bite your tongues here and there?

Phil,

I think if you stop playing mommy and daddy and don't try to be the police, and everyone won't act like kids.

You speak from the perspective of someone who wasn't here when the forums began. Originally, there were no moderators; Dennis ran the site, but there were no mods. Dennis began installing mods after he saw it was needed. First there was AaronS, the one and only Admin for several months. But each time the site grew (usually because number of people buying iPods widened), trolls and jerks came with the growth. Each time this happened, Dennis added more mods because he saw they were necessary.

While it may be the case that you feel "in reality everything ipod-related is meaningless in the world," I disagree with you. I certainly am not one to elevate electronic gadgets to some high moral status, but at the same time, the iPod is a well-made, beautifull-designed tool, and tools are, and have been, an essential aspect of human life for millennia, as has music. I am no utilitarian, and thus, I think that the iPod as a tool and as a means for having music in my life is important.
Nevertheless, even if the iPod isn't, the people who post here are. If you take individual freedom to its ultimate extreme, a sort of dumbed-down anarchism, which is what you propose, then the strong and ruthless control things. On a discussion forum, strength comes in many flavors - one is by the ability to communicate intelligently and be persuasive. Another is to be hurtful and mean. The diffference between the two is that the first harms no one, while the second harms many people. No one wants to come to a discussion forum to be insulted. This is not Slashdot or Fark. People come here to learn about, problem-solve, and celebrate their iPods. Those goals require civility and kindness.
I have never been to a decent board that didn't have moderators.

I'm under the impression that if the mods butt out and let things run themselves (a mean way of saying to just ignore such comments, let things be, and move on), all this can be avoided. In other words, if you didn't push Otto the first time and then repeatedly after that, then Otto wouldn't have anything else to say.

I'm of the opinion that you're blaming the vicitm here. If Otto had behaved with kindness and civility, then the discussion about what to do about threads with descriptions of hacks in them might still be going on. And Otto might've been persuasive enough to win some concessions.

I'm spending way too much time in this thread

Chris, your presence in this thread is most appreciated. :)

Originally posted by Paracaine
I just read the hard drive thread and I strongly disagree with the banning of Otto. He simply didn't deserve it.

2 years, too late pal.