This place has really gone downhill...

with the summer months upon us, i am out more using my ipod than hanging around here talking about it.

One thing I'd venture is that the forums have not changed in style or quality of debate since the changeover.

However what I'd prescribe the perceived change to is the lack of avatars. Lots of grey and little colour can give a message board a dull outlook. Would it be possible to enable avatars again? I assume they were switched off due to bandwidth issues. If this is the case, would it at least be possible to enable the link for remotely stored avatars? On all the message boards I'm on, my avatar is stored on my ISP's free webspace - and I'd assume a lot of other people do the same.

Could this be achieved? A bit more colour around the place and the whole outlook would be improved, at least that's my theory. :)

Cheers.

Re: Avatars - One of the highest bandwidth hogs is avatars and how they are displayed using avatar.php. In one week, the file avatar.php has had over 130,000 page views. Dennis is trying to find a hack that allows users to link offsite to their avatar.

lucas3735 - Awww, you make it sound like you're the child left behind by mistake, after a family moves!!! All alone in an empty house with the stuff they didn't want to take! ;)

But all is explained - you're iPodless, suffering from iPod Withdrawal Symptoms!!

I'm sorry, but I agree.

The forums are not what they are. I don't know why that is, and I can't even properly justify why I make that statement.

1) I think there's much more selfish posting ("Help me with my problem right now") than there was, especially from the new generation of Gen 3 newbies. People are much more interested in asking their question, or stating their opinion, than in actually engaging in any sort of dialogue. This leads responses to be made in similar vein, and the quality of discussion plummets.
2) I think there's much more laziness (hardly anyone bothers to search for an answer before posting yet another fkn question about Sony EX70 headphones or Marware Sports Convertibles or whatever), especially from the new generation of Gen 3 newbies.
If I was a moderator (god forbid!) it would drive me crackers.
3) The very real problems with volume, crackles and whistles, and people's real anger at not getting the features they want has tended to lead to a plethora of threads devoted to these issues, which rapidly become boring for those not suffering the problems, or for those who are not angry.
4) There's much more ill-tempered and arguably over-cautious moderation going on (I understand why, and perhaps even think it's necessary, but it does take away some of the zing and the fun).
5) In the interests of harmony, avoiding flame wars and not upsetting people, robust banter and argument is tightly controlled. Again, for some people that will inevitably make the fora less interesting, less lively and less 'fun'. The substitute has sometimes been uncontentious but infantile 'humor' of the Yo Momma/Inflatable Duncan kind, which may be hilarious for some, but which may make others switch off.
6) Ironically, while platform debate has now become rare, and while is conducted with painstaking politeness, tolerance and friendliness when it does crop up, there seems to be much more of an undercurrent of real hostility from some PC Podders to Apple in general and to the Mac in particular. This often shows itself in the "Apple make me mad cos..." and "Whooooo! Look here's a potential (non-Apple) iPod killer hurrah at last" type threads. Which makes the fora a less relaxing place if one is a generally satisfied Mac user, who thinks that, on the whole, Apple do a reasonable job.

And to make things worse, I can offer no suggestion as to how to make things any better.

@ jack, on 4) could you please elaborate, either here or via pm? i?d like to know what you mean exactly; if it?s me i?m willing to rethink my behaviour and to be corrected.

Thank you Jackonicko! You summed it all up. I guess then there is someone who feels the same way I do.

I'm all for giving Apple a hard time when they deserve it, and sometimes they do. It's the posts which indicate a more general, often ill-thought, anti-Apple prejudice which grip my ****.

And I'm also all for fairness, and for giving Apple credit when they do something great......

And how interesting that two such good tempered mods should post in response to my ill tempered and petty gibe. (Bob is nicely laid back too, but he's from East Anglia... I'm not going to let you off the hook by saying you're not occasionally over cautious from my perspective, MRM, just that no-one could doubt your sincerity and desire to do your job well, and who could ask for more?). If I had to moderate this forum I'd be VERY ill tempered much of the time, so I'm not being ALL THAT critical.

This is the first time for ages that I've seen so many of the old school/old forum intelligent Poderati contributing to a thread. Perhaps you clever chaps need a thick and ignorant bloke like me to provoke you into posting? Nice to see you together though, AMG, DMT, Lucas, Madpict and MRM!

Originally posted by Homie20
Yeah, these forums suck

:confused: :rolleyes:

No, I don't think homie20's posting was constructive criticism (since you value my opinion so much to mention me). On that note, do I take your comments as a compliment to my debate skills? To quote wise person I've never met..."I'm in a good mood..." so yes, Thank you Bob for the compliment! :)

Also, thank you Jackonicko for reading my analogy and not proverbially pouncing on me for it. ;) It's good to see a posting from you too. You and I have much to relate to. We're on "the list" didn't you know? ;) :)

For the record...the iPodlounge.com (as a site and forums) HAS NOT COMPLETELY GONE DOWNHILL! :) :) Actually, I overall love the new look of the site and forums (other than minor qualms over text size...but...my eyes are young).
I also love the content overall...I just wish people wouldn't keep branding me as such a player hater. no pun intended. ;)

Originally posted by Homie20
Yeah, these forums suck

**sigh**

There was a sense of community (although any community that has both me and Jacko in it would have to be considered somewhat dysfunctional) in the old forums that hasn't quite made it's way back here. I think it's gotten a bit better, although comments like that one certainly don't help...I have my theories on why things aren't quite like they used to be, they pretty much mirror Jacko's post...But I think with time things will continue to improve.

Essentially there was an influx of new people when the gen3's came out; not all of them were exactly polite or had reasonable expectations (some people would post back two or three minutes later condemning the lounge because no one had answered their post). But most of those people will be short timers. On the plus side, it brought a bunch of new people who still hang out here and contribute meaningfully, so hopefully in the long run the lounge will get back to where it was, and maybe even be better...

The bottom line is the 'lounge is still the best place on the internet to go for ipod help and info--even better than the Apple site, IMHO. Hopefully the good natured ribbing, and constructive debates will be more of a presence, and I think they will.

Yes, absolutely: the lounge "is still the best place on the internet to go for ipod help and info" and we shouldn't lose sight of that. It's just not the man it once was.

But then nor am I, with my having been 'quite polite' for so long. (Winks)

I can absolutely see why you'd want to, MRM, but it would look like a subtle form of censorship - kicking a thread to where fewer people will happen across it. And while it is about the site, it's also a bunch of loungers kicking off their shoes and talking about something which they want to discuss, so it's not inappropriate for the lounge....

IMHO.

Eustace mate. I wasn't getting at you.

I'm glad that we all talked about this. it has not changed my views on the forums, however I do feel that this is still the best place for "all things iPod."

Originally posted by ToddW
Wouldn't it be great to have a heated yet gentlemen like discussion on Platforms.

it?s been tried and has proven impossible. that?s the reason it?s been ruled out on this forum. there are other fora in the internet that have devoted themselves to this debate.

Originally posted by ToddW
Beleive I would love to tear into some Gates worshiper who doesn't realize the association betweent the integration of hardware/software that makes a computer work well.

this is exactly the kind of statement that derails such a discussion. many pc users (taking the position of pc?s are "better") would find your reference to them as "gates worshipper(s)" offensive. in such a discussion a statement like that would have to be considered flame-baiting.

we?ve come to a consensus here, that mac?s are better for some users and pc?s are better for others. take the time and browse the old forum to see that we?ve banned such discussions out of necessity.

Originally posted by mrm
take the time and browse the old forum to see that we?ve banned such discussions out of necessity.

!

The two threads below explain why I think there is a perception that this place has gone downhill. I suggest reading my posts in the first thread listed because I include details and things I think would help. I honestly believe that these issues have huge impacts on people participating.

http://ipodlounge.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3782

http://ipodlounge.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3408

Also another problem I see is that the whole 2nd and 3rd generation thing has really cluttered things. With so many forums here (Too many, IMO), why is there not a forum for 1st & 2nd Gen and another for 3rd Gen?

I do hope that somehow this place is fixed and that the community comes back alive, it would be a shame if the move from the old forum to the new killed this place, but so far that what is happening. I truly believe though that the change has to start with the form and function of the forum, then the moderators and then us the everyday posters.

No, it's not time for you to take a break.:D

You're an even keel that is extremely important to how the lounge functions. You're absolutely right about what recently happend putting everything into perspective, but you yourself said it--it's a small minority (although an extremely vocal one) that are screaming the forums are the worst thing to happen since Elvis got fat. The rest are just wanting it to be like it was, or making objective criticisms (it's pretty hard for me to take something like "these forums pretty much suck" too seriously). I think everyone pretty much agrees that this place still rocks, and it's still BY FAR the best place for ipod info.

Heck, I really don't need the info that much anymore--I've pretty much reached a state of Ipod nirvana (I'm by no means an expert, and I still on occasion find out some new trick, but all the bugs are gone, and I can do exactly what I want with it--the ipod that is--now), but I still like to hang out here because of folks like you, Adam, Kurt and the rest. This is the only forum I visit for ANYTHING with the exception of the Jriver Media Center 9 forum, and I only go there for software updates and a rare post. There always seems to be something interesting going on here...

The G4 is fantastic value at the moment and boots in OS 9 and OS X so you can see what all the fuss is about between the two Mac OSs. Not wishing to bore or over-simplify, but OS X appeals to newcomers and those from a Wintel background, while many existing longterm Apple users prefer OS 9.

(and some can only use 9, because some specialised apps haven't yet been produced for X)

There's also the problem of keeping the more vigorous stuff in one 'safe' place, when it's influence might spread

Originally posted by eustacescrubb
OldSkool - the fonts and color issues have their own threads, and responses to those topics will (and have) appear(ed) there, not here. Do you think the best way to persuade a moderator is to cross-post? ;) [/B]

How did I 'cross-post here'? You put the 'wink' so I am not sure what you mean by that statement, but I don't see how anything I said was a cross post. I put links to another thread to avoid cross posting but I explained that I thought they pertained to this topic. Also I did not start these threads. To all Mods/Admins there is no need to get defensive or negatively counter everything I post, I simply made suggestions...you have the right to take'em or leave'em, no biggie here, but I do expect respect in your replys just as I believe I give it. I have said nothing personal against you but I understand your desire to defend the forum you mod. Respecting posts and looking for solutions would be much more positive for this whole community then always looking for the 'counter'. I appreciate this forum and the information it provides and only wish for it to continue improving.

I think it's a very bad decision to move an established and healthy thread from where the protaganists were using it (and where it had some visibility) for no apparent reason (it can only be seen as censorship), and I think that it looks pretty high handed and discourteous to do so with no explanation.

I'm not being rude, and I'm not criticising you personally, Eustace, just questioning your actions in this isolated case.

We must agree to politely disagree. Although it's about the forums this thread hasn't been 'feedback' in the sense that one would normally understand. It's been a much more general discussion which, I'd suggest, was entirely appropriate for the Lounge, and whose presence in the lounge encouraged a degree of freedom and wandering 'off topic'.

hmmmmm, the change-over to this forum happened right around the same time as the release of the gen3 ipods. which most likley added to a turn-over in people, with older ones no longer feeling they had a need for support, and newbies coming in wanting questions answered, then taking off.

and because for the gen3 ipods, and 2.0 firmware, there were allot of flames and post wars regarding features on the old and new ipods, which might have left a bad taste in peoples mouths.

i've seen myself post less and less to this forum too, sometimes due to the fact that it's nice out (finally), othertimes because i really have nothing to say. i would think everyone is feeling the same way.

i would agree with the jacko to, but he always seems to be right on the money.

and i also have always missed the avatars, i realize why they were taken down, but i like the fact that that i had a face to put with the name.